Is it more expensive to move a boiler than install a new one?

[Lemonhead]

Hi,

We're having an extension done at the moment and our contract with our builder covers the cost to relocate our existing boiler in to our new utility room.

After builder had boiler inspected, it turns out we can't move the boiler because it's "illegal" as too old to be made safe. As a result, builder has said we need to pay for new boiler and install and he'd contribute the £500 he allocated for relocation towards it.

I've gone back to him and proposed that instead of doing this - I supply a new boiler and he fits it under our current agreement. He is refusing to do this as apparently new boiler installs are much more expensive.


So my question - is it more expensive to install a boiler that's currently on a wall over one that's brand new and in a box? and if so, what are these additional costs?

Thanks

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Tbh it sounds too cheap anyway £500 to move it

How old is the boiler and any pictures of it ?

 

[Knappers]

Could go either way but no gas man would want to move an old boiler imo.
500 Does sound a bit cheap but his offer doesn't sound unreasonable either.
I'd want to keep the builder on my side and not push too hard so keep the negotiations cordial would be my advice.
If you take another £300 off him then he'll just find a way to compensate - is it worth it?

 

[king of pipes]

No reputable Gas engineer would want to move a old boiler it simply not cost effective and there's to much that could go wrong, he cannot guarantee the boiler will even work once moved , his offer is fair in my opinion you will most likely have to contribute a similar amount for the install + the cost of a new boiler, flue , filter , chemicals and parts , system cleaning , gas upgrade, controls upgrade this will all add more cost it's best to keep your builder on side and negotiate with him to keep the cost as low as possible . Regards kop

 

[Lemonhead]

The whole point of my accepting a quote is to give me price certainty. I really hate this business model seemly based on introducing ambiguity (extras) and then trying to squeeze more money out of me for him and his trade mates. It's not the first time it's happened.

He could and should have checked whether the boiler could be moved or not prior to agreeing to move it in his quote to avoid this situation.

He's not getting an extra penny out of me unless he can justify why it costs more to install a new boiler over one on the wall. I haven't heard any reasons above why it would be more expensive - so I presume it isn't. I don't know if his offer of £500 covers a boiler install or not, but it's irrelevant - as he should fit it at any cost as was agreed under our current quote agreement.

Him requesting money off me unreasonably is not keeping him onside - it's extortion

 

[Knappers]

This doesn't sound like extortion on the surface. If your builder has had boilers moved before for this price then its entirely reasonable for that to be on his quote. If its a genuine mistake then its an unfortunate expense and may be difficult to swallow but I'd recommend that you do exactly that.
On the plus side, if your boiler was too old then you'll likely recoup the cost over time with a new condensing boiler.
It happens sometimes and with all the best will in the world, some costs just can't be absorbed.
I would get some quotes and try to get install covered by builder but I wouldn't be going into negotiations with that attitude.
I've walked off site before due to a customer treating me like dirt and some jobs even get rushed due to a lack of tea!
If you go in soft then I'd like to see some movement like maybe cover install or £750 from the builder but really your relying on their grace and I think I know where 'your not getting another penny' will get you.

 

[king of pipes]

The whole point of my accepting a quote is to give me price certainty. I really hate this business model seemly based on introducing ambiguity (extras) and then trying to squeeze more money out of me for him and his trade mates. It's not the first time it's happened.

He could and should have checked whether the boiler could be moved or not prior to agreeing to move it in his quote to avoid this situation.

He's not getting an extra penny out of me unless he can justify why it costs more to install a new boiler over one on the wall. I haven't heard any reasons above why it would be more expensive - so I presume it isn't. I don't know if his offer of £500 covers a boiler install or not, but it's irrelevant - as he should fit it at any cost as was agreed under our current quote agreement.

Him requesting money off me unreasonably is not keeping him onside - it's extortion

Well that hit a nerve is there more to this than we know ? Builders are not Gas engineers they know little about Gas regulations regarding boilers, controls or plumbing they may think they do , part L of the building regulations must be followed this will bring your system upto date and it will be more fuel efficient . Moving a old boiler is false economy it could easily fail within a short time if it works at all , I've been caught out moving one it was only 3 years old cost me £350 in electrical parts and a lot of hassle "well it worked before you moved it was the customers words " Its never happened a second time . I can see both sides here but the gas regulations need to be followed who pays is something that you need to discuss but do just that discuss it , be firm but fair your well in your rights to ask for a breakdown of the work involved then at least you know what he's charging, you don't have to agree but a bit of deplomacy wouldn't hurt and not everyone is a crook out to fleece you Kop

 

[Ric2013]

Reading between the lines, are the RGIs on this forum agreeing that in principle, if in safe condition and if you can get hold of the necessary obsolete flue parts and other ancilliaries that may be required, an old boiler legally can be moved within the same property running on its grandfather rights with regard to energy efficiency and safety devices; in practical terms this often isn't a good idea especially considering the cost of a basic boiler (likely to be higher spec than the old one) is not that high?

It may reassure the OP to know that I personally have a boiler that is 30+ years old and barely 70% efficient, that a neighbour of mine offered me a free modern boiler that meets current standards and could legally be installed as a new installation (but does not meet the requirements of her new, extended house), and I declined the offer. I declined because the cost of a new installation far exceeds the cost of the boiler itself and if I'm paying for the installation, I may as well also pay the cost of the new boiler and choose the most appropriate model for my househlod needs, have the warranty etc etc.

Taking your installer at face value, let's say the boiler cannot be moved because he can't get the parts for it to be considered correctly installed or it has existing faults requiring recification, so it's not feasible. A new boiler could be supplied and thrown in (and would be a chuck in) for, say, £2000 depending on geographical location. More like £3000 for a quality install, and my ideas on prices are probably 3 years out of date and will have risen considerably. Moving an old boiler (if you can get someone who'll do it and subject the the above caveats), should be simpler and things like water quality are less of an issue because old boilers are more tolerant of dirty water and there is no warranty to consider, amongst other factors to consider such as the need to upgrade heating controls when a new boiler is fitted.

Essentially, the question is, is it more expensive to fit a new boiler than to move an old one? The new one is cheaper in that you don't have to recover the old one from the wall, but removal from wall isn't a very long process. The new one you need to pay for a new flue kit, but presumably you will not be able to remove and relocate the old boiler's flue so would need to buy a new one anyway (if available) so perhaps there's no difference there. The new one will need condensate connection, possible upgrades to the control wiring, and registering as a new installation, probably a powerflush, possible upgrades to the gas pipe from the meter to the boiler. And other stuff I probably haven't considered...