Is a leak sealer ever a suitable solution for a new system?

[Colink]

I assume the answer is no, but if this fixes the issue I know it will be what my builders sub contractor plumber will do.

Therefore, before he is allowed near the system I would like to either find the issue or eleimnate parts of the system that do nto have an issue.

As you will note from my post I am not a plumber, but I can follow basic to complex instructions. I assume plumber tested system but was not present when he left.

Situation:

New Viessmann Gas Boiler fitted a few months ago to a new build garden house

I turned on the heating for the first time last week. Three days about 3 to 5 hours each day.

Each morning the boiler had lost all pressure and had to be re-pressurised with the valve that loops form pipe D to E - see image

Following guidance from Viessmann (now closed for Christmas) I closed off all valves to the boiler after ensuting pressure was about 1.2 bar and left it overnight. Pressure has not dropped this morning.

Fairly sure that eliminates the boiler - would you agree?

Is there any possible fault other than a leak in the heating pipes?

There is no sign of water damage to any of the plasterboard - (timber frame building)

If there is a leak, will the pressure drop when I open one or more valves - without turning on the boiler.

A Heating Flow
D Cold Water
E Heating return

Will turning on one valve at a time help identify where the issue is?

Which valves? - then leave for a few hours or overnight? I assume A & E and order will make no diference.

As hot water does not have a valve am I right in assuming the leak must be in the radiator system.

Is there any chance of identifying a leak, with the boiler running, pointing a Laser temperature guage at the plasterboard walls?

Any comments of suggestions would be appreciated.

ColinK

 

[SimonG]

As the customer on a new install I would not accept the addition of leak sealer, it's a stop gap for older systems whilst you get to the bottom of it and fix it.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yep it’s a no from me time to pressure test the heating system to 4 bar with water

Also wouldn’t pay the plumbers a penny until they fix it and you inspect the pressure test being on for 2 days

 

[Colink]

Yep it’s a no from me time to pressure test the heating system to 4 bar with water

Also wouldn’t pay the plumbers a penny until they fix it and you inspect the pressure test being on for 2 days

Thanks for your comment and suggestion which I will push for. Unfortunately the main build / contractor has already paid the plumber, though we have not fully paid him. Sorry for him as I know he i sunder some financial pressure.

If you have any thoughts on my comments about self diagnosis (me) before getting plumber (which will not happen quickly) in I would appreciate it.

 

[king of pipes]

It really isn't your place to find the issue you've employed a contractor to fit a new boiler and make alterations it's leaking so it needs finding , leak sealer is not acceptable on a new install and is only masking the problem which will not go away . As Shaun has said get them to isolate the boiler from the system raise the pressure in the pipework 4 bar is a bit much in my opinion as it could damage the radiators ? but 3 bar is the maximum the system should get to so I'd say raise it to that then throughly check round for signs of leakage keeping it pressurised up . Kop

 

[Timmy D]

My initial thought is could a pipe have burst due to the freezing weather if the heating was not on?

Fill boiler to 2.5 bar cold.
Isolate boiler from system with boiler valves.
Leave boiler turned off overnight.
Check boiler pressure in morning, we expect it to be 2.5b as per last test.
Then open boiler valves and we then expected the pressure to drop as the pressure in the boiler equalises with the leaking heating pipework. If the pressure drops, it’s a leak on the pipework.

I’ve got a thermal camera I use to find leaks like this.

 

[plumbingservices]

leak sealer is not a good option for the new system. You can contact a good plumber and fix it. You can contact Caliber Plumbing for any plumbing issues you are facing. I have personal experience with them.

 

[Colink]

My initial thought is could a pipe have burst due to the freezing weather if the heating was not on?

Fill boiler to 2.5 bar cold.
Isolate boiler from system with boiler valves.
Leave boiler turned off overnight.
Check boiler pressure in morning, we expect it to be 2.5b as per last test.
Then open boiler valves and we then expected the pressure to drop as the pressure in the boiler equalises with the leaking heating pipework. If the pressure drops, it’s a leak on the pipework.

I’ve got a thermal camera I use to find leaks like this.

 

[Colink]

Thanks for the detailed reply. Satisfied it was not due to ice, started before frost and building well insulated.

Followed your guidance. Leak in radiator pipe work.

I tried to find leak with a laser thermometer but as expected it was not sensitive enough to defect a leak.

Would you expect all plumbers to have a thermal camera?

A few years ago a plumber found a leak under my son‘s concrete floor with a sound detection device.

Once concrete floor was dug up in a tiny area he fixed it in 10 seconds. Previous plumber from 5 years earlier did not tighten one of several plastic joints.

thanks ColinK

 

[Timmy D]

Thanks for the detailed reply. Satisfied it was not due to ice, started before frost and building well insulated.

Followed your guidance. Leak in radiator pipe work.

I tried to find leak with a laser thermometer but as expected it was not sensitive enough to defect a leak.

Would you expect all plumbers to have a thermal camera?

A few years ago a plumber found a leak under my son‘s concrete floor with a sound detection device.

Once concrete floor was dug up in a tiny area he fixed it in 10 seconds. Previous plumber from 5 years earlier did not tighten one of several plastic joints.

thanks ColinK

I sometimes use a stethoscope, although it’s hard to hear the water. I’ve also disconnected pipework and connected a air compressor, pressurised to 3-4bar and then used stethoscope.

Not many plumbers carry thermal cameras, although that may be changing as the cost of the cameras has reduced.

 

[darriusdax]

Thanks for the detailed reply. Satisfied it was not due to ice, started before frost and building well insulated.

Followed your guidance. Leak in radiator pipe work.

I tried to find leak with a laser thermometer but as expected it was not sensitive enough to defect a leak.

Would you expect all plumbers to have a thermal camera?

A few years ago a plumber found a leak under my son‘s concrete floor with a sound detection device.

Once concrete floor was dug up in a tiny area he fixed it in 10 seconds. Previous plumber from 5 years earlier did not tighten one of several plastic joints.

thanks ColinK

 

[darriusdax]

you probably sorted this by now, but as a leak detection engineer i can tell you that infra red cameras only work in specific circumstances - you need heat transfer to the surface you are inspecting, so if there is any kind of cavity or complex layering between the leak and the surface you are surveying then you will struggle to pick up a heat bloom, and meanwhile you are potentially causing more damage - the best method is draining the system and running a tracer gas survey - sometimes you can actually hear the gas and water spitting out of the leak without using the gas analyser - If money is tight and you cant afford professional leak detection... and if the leak is big enough, putting your ear to the floors can let your hear it, or adding some cheap perfume to the water ( a lot of perfume ) giving it a few days and trying to smell it has worked for some people but not something i would do.