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Discuss INTERGAS HRE 28/24 Combi in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

DjClubber

Gas Engineer
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50
Admit, not any experience with these but am really disappointed with them.

Called out to rectify Hot Water going Hot then Cold, was thinking Plate and usual Boiler. Then get there no Plate and conversation with Intergas Tech stating only way to get working is hook up a Power Flush to the Hot out and Cold in. Really not a big selling factor for me to be fair.

Anyone here got any experience with Intergas Combi? Want to double check before I commit to the work. Heating fine, circulation on Heating fine. Hot Water Hot for seconds then cold. To top it off too, its in the Loft.

Cant see this taking off too much every 3yrs or so having to hook up me KAMCO CF90 and the Bedroom underneath has brand new carpets.

What ACID required for this procedure, Quantity? Oviously FX2 out oof the Question and its on the Pottable Water side too. ADVICE gratefully received. . .
 
Hard water area ?
 
Need ds3 then and a softener fitting as it’s just copper pipe running back and too
 
Ok, will that sort it? What Quantity through the power flush of DS3? Softener Fitting??? You mean add a Softener or Softener Fitting???
 
Yes depends how much water your pf holds there’s a ratio

Yes else they will have the same problem
 
Normally fill the flusher

Then pump into wait until it starts coming out give it a couple of mins then stop and turn the valves off eg leaving the stuff in there

Wait 20-30 mins then open and run flusher for 5-10 mins switching flow every so often then give it another 20 mins with the valves shut etc

Then drain all the stuff out flush it with fresh clean water for around 10 mins eg hose pipe and one to drain

Then your done
 
I'm interfering here - apologies. And I'm a know-nothing DIYer.

But am toying with options to replace my Heat Only boiler (there's another thread currently open) - and Intergas was one of the possibilities (Ideal is currently the other).

I thought I kept reading that Intergas was the saviour of mankind and you fit and forget. That doesn't appear to be the case here.

Or is it simply a case of water hardness on the hot water side that would affect any other make?
 
Hi From my experience so far, on any other make you have a secondary heat exchanger which can be cleaned or replaced at a reasonable cost. With the Intergas, only way to remedy is hook up a Power Flush Machine. No secondary Heat Exchanger. I am a Novice with Intergas and can only assist a little. But from my point of view, would prefer the secondary for an installers Maintenance of the Hot Water.

While Im here Ill update, Flushed Through and now problem resolved. Looking to put in a Water Softener as it currently has a Scale Reducer Inline. So dare say Ill be meeting the owner again in the very near future.

Don't know if there are any more experienced Intergas Engineers that can contribute. . .
 
Hi From my experience so far, on any other make you have a secondary heat exchanger which can be cleaned or replaced at a reasonable cost. With the Intergas, only way to remedy is hook up a Power Flush Machine. No secondary Heat Exchanger. I am a Novice with Intergas and can only assist a little. But from my point of view, would prefer the secondary for an installers Maintenance of the Hot Water.

While Im here Ill update, Flushed Through and now problem resolved. Looking to put in a Water Softener as it currently has a Scale Reducer Inline. So dare say Ill be meeting the owner again in the very near future.

Don't know if there are any more experienced Intergas Engineers that can contribute. . .


With further apologies for butting in - as per my other thread, I'm torn between installing an Intergas HRE OV Heat Only boiler and an Ideal Heat Only Logic MAX boiler to replace an old cast iron Ideal Classic. The Ideal option is the easy one insofar it's well known and has an attractive 10 yr warranty and my mate (a local Gase Safe installer) is familiar with them.

But, regrettably, locally, Intergas is a bit of an unknown quantity. I love the idea that the Intergas HEX is less prone to blockage as I have a 23 yr old open vent 10mm microbore system which would tend to lend itself to the Intergas HEX more than the Ideal one (which is seemingly experiencing issues with the sump cracking and may well be more likely to fail/block up than the Intergas one. For information, the water here is very soft - no limescale at all, ever.

Further apologies for taking time on this topic.
 
Ok the Heat only is completely different to the COMBI. There was nothing wrong with the MAIN HEAT EXCHANGER on the Intergas. A Combi has the 2nd ary Circulation. Heat Only only has a MAIN HEAT EXCHANGE.
 
Much appreciate the extra, reassuring, advice there.

And just finally - I keep thinking back on the question of "Fitting Kit A" (the jig) on the HRE OV.

I realise I shouldn't concern myself with it - but I have an inquisitive nature - and saw (with some interest) that an offset bend (I think it was 50 degree) is needed to centralise the flue - that is to say to avoid clashing with the flow and return.

The Intergas advisor said he thought the jig is advisable but not essential (without the jig he said you'd need to chisel [chamfer] the hole in the wall out a bit to accommodate the flue).

Is there a definitive answer on that or is it just personal choice? As we know the jig comes with expansion vessel and pipework that would get thrown away .. is it really advisable or necessary?

Ta.
 
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If you are fitting a heat only boiler and don't have a separate sealed Expansion Kit then this is choice, if you have already got the sealed system in place, you wouldn't need it. A Heat Only Boiler generally doesn't come with an Expansion Vessel built in. Only System & Combi are more or less compulsory. Heat Only not required as probably are going to install a separate EXP VES and PRV Kit. I wouldn't of thought the Flue would interfere with the Flow & Return Connections. Heat Only are Generally at the Top of the Boiler and only 2 Pipes. Looking at the KIT 'A' is more suited to a COMBI as all piped below. Heat Only, only GAS at the Bottom.
 
If you are fitting a heat only boiler and don't have a separate sealed Expansion Kit then this is choice, if you have already got the sealed system in place, you wouldn't need it. A Heat Only Boiler generally doesn't come with an Expansion Vessel built in. Only System & Combi are more or less compulsory. Heat Only not required as probably are going to install a separate EXP VES and PRV Kit. I wouldn't of thought the Flue would interfere with the Flow & Return Connections. Heat Only are Generally at the Top of the Boiler and only 2 Pipes. Looking at the KIT 'A' is more suited to a COMBI as all piped below. Heat Only, only GAS at the Bottom.


All received, ta.

Just to clarify.

I don't have a sealed system - open vent with a clean and accessible F & E in the loft.

I won't be installing an expansion vessel nor a PRV ... it's an open vented heat only system with a Grundfos pump in the airing cupboard.

Intergas have told me the flue DOES interfere with the flow and return UNLESS I fit the offset flue which kicks the flue outlet over to the centre. Indeed, if I look at an illustration of the top of the HRE OV boiler it looks obvious that the standard flue kit would point the flue directly at the flow and return - which are sited immediately behind the flue outlet.

I agree the Kit A looks entire appropriate for a System Boiler or a Combi system - BUT the bloke at Intergas said you buy the jig and just discard the EV and the copper pipes. He said the reason you fit the jig is just to stand the boiler off the wall which in turn brings the offset elboww off the wall (obviously enough). By standing the boiler and the flue off the wall it saves you having to chisel (chamfer) a bit of brickwork away from the perimeter of the flue hole.

Further thanks.
 
Just on the Intergas front, if you do not have a Combimate fitted it is more than likely that in a hard water area the hot water side will give you grief. It can be cleaned in situ with a hand pressurisation pump - Rothenberger type- with Kamco descaler in warm/hot water probably take 20 mins.
A check with the local water authority will give you the Clark scale for the area & if over 200 a Combimate is required. If below an in line Adey scale reducer is approved.
I speak from recent experience & although they suggest the in line unit - which was fitted to the boiler in question- there is no mention about the over 200 on the Clark Scale requirement.
We have now fitted 20-30 of the Intergas units & have only come across this scale issue on a couple. It is very easy & quick to descale & will take less time than most secondary plate heat exchangers plus no seals to be replaced either.

Arthur.
 
Interesting Arthur.

I was prompted to check my own Clark figure in the South West - but it bore no relationship to the figure 200. It's between 3.6 - 7. The figure that did seem to fit in was the Calcium Carbonate figure - mine's 51 - 100 and other regions did go over 200.

Additionally, may I get you to settle an uncertainty in my mind as I contemplate a replacement Intergas Heat Only boiler. I asked the question above but it's still not been explained to me. When fitting, say, a HRE OV 18 I can't find a definitive answer to whether you need the Fitting Kit (the jig) or not. I gather the offset flue kit is obligatory in order to avoid the flow and return (although even that point seemed uncertain in earlier replies) - but do you "have" to fit the jig (i.e to stand the boiler off the wall an inch or so) or will the additional offset flue elbow allow the regular elbow to sit flush with the back of the boiler (i.e. facing the back wall but without overhanging it). But if it does overhang the rear of the boiler then presumably you have to chamfer the hole in the wall to accommodate it?
 
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I’d really forget the Intergas if you're not getting the answers you want Stan
 
To those such as myself who don’t fit Intergas then yes. I’d be contacting Intergas by email and ask for confirmation in writing. It’s likely you will end up with bits you don’t need in a fitting pack but that happens so often.
 
To those such as myself who don’t fit Intergas then yes. I’d be contacting Intergas by email and ask for confirmation in writing. It’s likely you will end up with bits you don’t need in a fitting pack but that happens so often.

Indeed, you could be right. As you might remember I asked Intergas on the phone but the reply was vague.And, yes, he said if you bought the jig you throw away the expansion vessel and all the pipework and fittings. (he actually said you could try and sell them:().

I asked Arthur coz he said he'd fitted 20 or 30 Intergas - so I was figuring he would know.
 
You’d be amazed how few vented Versions are fitted these days. I would get it on writing from Intergas because then you have some comeback. I am assuming you are sourcing your own boiler?
 
You’d be amazed how few vented Versions are fitted these days. I would get it on writing from Intergas because then you have some comeback. I am assuming you are sourcing your own boiler?

Yes, I'm beginning to see that now. It just happens I don't want a Combi and even a System Boiler is just that bit beyond what I'm comfortable with (call me old fashioned).

Re. sourcing - I was hoping to get my Gas Safe mate (an Ideal enthusiast) to do the half day course at Barnstaple and use me as his guinea pig. And I would imagine he would be happier getting the boiler himself (he uses Wolseley / Plumcenter IIRC).

Plan B might be just to contact one of the registered Intergas fitters - but the nearest one isn't all that local.

Thanks for time and trouble.
 
No bother. Why Intergas specifically? There are many manufacturers that offer much better after sales support and parts are more readily available
 
Mainly as it's a 23 year old system and the heat exchanger is said to be more bombproof than those on others. ( narrow waterways that are apparently prone to blockage etc.)

The Ideal Logic MAX is an obvious alternative but half the respondents here say they are unhappy with the leaking sumps and pin holed HEXs. Plus, can I trust them to genuinely uphold their 10 yr warranty if they're unwilling to acknowledge issues that others keep telling them about?

Other than that I suppose it's Vaillant or even WB but my mate isn't approved with either (he's Ideal and Baxi registered) and the warranty is therefore reduced considerably.

Where does your own favour lay?
 
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I have converted much older systems to pressure with no dramas. Has anyone looked your system over for potential weakness? Most installers will insist on a proper flush which is a fairly robust flow exercise which can also highlight system weakness. You may be being paranoid unnecessarily. Also it’s not hard to be able to offer Vaillant extended warranties. I wouldn’t touch wb. I like Glow-worm at the mo and all you need as an installer with them is to register with club energy
 
Stan,
200 CaCO3 mg/l is about 14degrees on the actual Clark scale but there is always a conversion to CaCO3 mg/l hence the 'above 200'.

Unless you need to pressurise the system you will not need the rear frame - not sure they show it for that model in their blurb, I think they show a stand alone vessel & valves.
The offset flue kit allows for a boiler replacement with a conventional center flue hole, & also avoids the flow & return pipe. You can use a straight out flue but you will struggle with the pipe tails & have to shorten one of them, also part of the joint would be in the wall & you would need to do some artistic finishing with plaster to keep it in view. The offset removes all that drama.
Regards

Arthur.
 
Ta. How would my mate get access to Vaillant's additional warranty? Presumably do the course?
Ideally, if it wasn't Intergas? I'd have rear flue ( makes installation a bit easier on space grounds) hence the Logic is OK - BUT a neighbour has just had a Vaillant Ecofit Pure (with a rear flue option ) fitted.
It's cheaper than an Ecotec (which doesn't have the rear flue option) and only has 2 yr warranty as standard so I would really want to get their uprated warranty with a Ecofit Pure.

Point taken re. my concern about presurised system.

Further thanks.
'
 
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