Search the forum,

Discuss Ideal Classic FF250 boiler does not stay on in the Central Heating Forum area at PlumbersForums.net

Messages
8
My boiler packed up 11am yesterday after 21 years problem free heating.

What happens when I switch it on is:
The fan starts, the boiler then fires up and works for about 2 minutes and then the flames go out but the fan is still running.
If I turn it all off for half and hour it can then be restarted and runs same again for 2 mins then nothing.
Just enough to warm the tails of the nearest radiator (hall), which makes me think my pump is OK.

I'm thinking this may be thermostat related.
Potentiometer or Overheat thermostat but that said the overheat reset button hasn't popped out at all.

Two months ago, I had two radiators replaced, all radiators balanced using a thermometer to check difference in the flow and return temperatures
and the system was flushed through and Fernox inhibitor added.

Any advice or confirmation welcome please.
 
I have an FF360 and these boilers are pretty dumb (basically on/off), so I can't see any scenario where the problem is not inside the boiler if the fan keeps running after the flame stops. As suggested, time to get someone out to fix it.

After you get it fixed, I'd be interested to know what the problem was.
 
Then it's probably a boiler fault so will need a Registered Gas Engineer to diagnose and repair.
For your information, I called a RGI at 8/30am on MONDAY. He came out at 10am took the cover off it, shone the light from his phone in it and then said he would need to call Ideal's advice helpline which he said he left a message for them to ring him to discuss. With that he left and said he would be in touch. Despite calling HIM 3 times that afternoon I never heard back.
I wanted it diagnosed not a head scratch!

At last he didn't get any money from me.

I had hoped by now someone in this forum would have even if just suggestion, what part may be caused this.

My idea is, the ignition electrode lights the boiler, then a crack in the insulation on the cable or cable fault heats up and the boiler turns the gas off. I've ordered all the usual parts today except the solenoid and PCB.
 
For your information, I called a RGI at 8/30am on MONDAY. He came out at 10am took the cover off it, shone the light from his phone in it and then said he would need to call Ideal's advice helpline which he said he left a message for them to ring him to discuss. With that he left and said he would be in touch. Despite calling HIM 3 times that afternoon I never heard back.
I wanted it diagnosed not a head scratch!

At last he didn't get any money from me.

I had hoped by now someone in this forum would have even if just suggestion, what part may be caused this.

My idea is, the ignition electrode lights the boiler, then a crack in the insulation on the cable or cable fault heats up and the boiler turns the gas off. I've ordered all the usual parts today except the solenoid and PCB.

Maybe you should try reading the forum rules with regard to combustion appliances before you climb on your high horse.

So stop tinkering as it's illegal.
 
You should call someone that knows how to diagnose the problem properly, and beware of people that just swap parts until they get it right, as that could cost you a lot more in the long run.

The fact your guy called Ideal for advice and didn't just start changing things in my opinion is a good sign. I am not sure why he didn't call you back, I would try to keep calling him, if you are still on good terms. If not, find someone else that has experience with the older Ideal boilers, they made a lot of them, and they are simple and reliable.

As SimonG said, you really shouldn't play with it yourself. Even if someone on the forum knew exactly what the problem was based on your symptoms, they would not tell you, as it may encourage you to try to fix it yourself. It may be that you just planned to buy the required part ahead of time so that when certified engineer comes, the part is available. However the people on here have no way of knowing what you plan to do, and no one wants to have any part in someone blowing themselves up, or poisoning their kids with CO.
 
Last edited:
As SimonG said, you really shouldn't play with it yourself. Even if someone on the forum knew exactly what the problem was based on your symptoms, they would not tell you, as it may encourage you to try to fix it yourself.

Or encourage others
 
You should call someone that knows how to diagnose the problem properly, and beware of people that just swap parts until they get it right, as that could cost you a lot more in the long run.

The fact your guy called Ideal for advice and didn't just start changing things in my opinion is a good sign. I am not sure why he didn't call you back, I would try to keep calling him, if you are still on good terms. If not, find someone else that has experience with the older Ideal boilers, they made a lot of them, and they are simple and reliable.

As SimonG said, you really shouldn't play with it yourself. Even if someone on the forum knew exactly what the problem was based on your symptoms, they would not tell you, as it may encourage you to try to fix it yourself. It may be that you just planned to buy the required part ahead of time so that when certified engineer comes, the part is available. However the people on here have no way of knowing what you plan to do, and no one wants to have any part in someone blowing themselves up, or poisoning their kids with CO.
Find someone else that has experience with Ideal boilers?
Easier said than done.

I accept that generally, people shouldn't "play with boilers" especially if they don't know what they are doing. There is no way I would change anything that was gas such as the solenoid for example. I fitted a carbon monoxide alarm where the boiler is years ago.
My point is, if householders can have an idea what is wrong, look up the cosy of the parts, they wont get stung when a fitter eventually turns up and fixes the problem.

I changed the pump with a new one yesterday, worth doing but it didn't make it work.
My house hasn't blown up yet as the parts dint not arrive next day by 1pm, they dint even arrive next day!
The parts centre uses Royal Mail as their chosen courier.
 
Find someone else that has experience with Ideal boilers?
Easier said than done.

I accept that generally, people shouldn't "play with boilers" especially if they don't know what they are doing. There is no way I would change anything that was gas such as the solenoid for example. I fitted a carbon monoxide alarm where the boiler is years ago.
My point is, if householders can have an idea what is wrong, look up the cosy of the parts, they wont get stung when a fitter eventually turns up and fixes the problem.

I changed the pump with a new one yesterday, worth doing but it didn't make it work.
My house hasn't blown up yet as the parts dint not arrive next day by 1pm, they dint even arrive next day!
The parts centre uses Royal Mail as their chosen courier.
It is not quite as simple as just avoiding the gas bits. Fan assisted boilers are quite complex. For starters, the case is usually part of a sealed unit, so if it is removed, the sealing strips need to be inspected for damage and it needs to be correctly seated when reinstalled. So even removing the case requires an understanding of what can go wrong with gas burning appliances. Lot of things that you would not expect can affect the flame, and the finely tuned balance of air and gas it receives, which affects how much CO is produced. So if the case is removed for service, IMHO one should really test the flue gases afterwards to make sure everything is running properly, and this requires special equipment. Are you absolutely sure that CO detector works?

You said you have had the boiler 21 years, didn't you get someone out every year or so for a service? The flue should be inspected once a year, and the exchanger cleaned, and the flue gases checked for efficient combustion and minimal production of CO. Best plan is to develop a relationship with an installer you trust to do the annual service, and then they will very likely come and fix it for a reasonable price when it breaks.
 
Last edited:
Yes a know it all who thinks we are all out to rip him off, not make a living
I would have (and still would) happily pay someone to come round and fix my boiler.
I tried that first and the result was an extra day without heating when the plumber went away and was never heard from again.

I am not a "know it all" but I am not ignorant either. I worked in construction management on sites for 35 years! In retirement, I help and advise people who are having issues with their new homes.

I am more than capable of working through this with a little help and pointing in the right direction.
and I thank SIRICOSM for the advice he gave.

However, it appears those on this forum who could help choose not to, and prefer to reply with smug comments implying I am preventing their ilk earning a living which I am not.
But I am sure many on here know full well there are a lot of chancers out there that do rip people off and would just say "you need a new boiler mate" because they themselves cannot fix it.

The tone in this forum leaves a lot to be desired and I doubt anyone looking for advice about a boiler problem would be successful.

Now you can all spend your weekend bitching about me!
 
It is not quite as simple as just avoiding the gas bits. Fan assisted boilers are quite complex. For starters, the case is usually part of a sealed unit, so if it is removed, the sealing strips need to be inspected for damage and it needs to be correctly seated when reinstalled. So even removing the case requires an understanding of what can go wrong with gas burning appliances. Lot of things that you would not expect can affect the flame, and the finely tuned balance of air and gas it receives, which affects how much CO is produced. So if the case is removed for service, IMHO one should really test the flue gases afterwards to make sure everything is running properly, and this requires special equipment. Are you absolutely sure that CO detector works?

You said you have had the boiler 21 years, didn't you get someone out every year or so for a service? The flue should be inspected once a year, and the exchanger cleaned, and the flue gases checked for efficient combustion and minimal production of CO. Best plan is to develop a relationship with an installer you trust to do the annual service, and then they will very likely come and fix it for a reasonable price when it breaks.

I appreciate what you say. And agree I do not have specialist equipment to test flue gases or combustion.
CO detector is under 2 years old. I have no idea if it works. It displays 0 and a green light flashes.

I could have had my boiler serviced, but have cleaned the HE and flue myself and all that I have replaced (up to now) is couple of fans in 21 years. I realise many might be horrified by this. But I am capable of changing the brakes on my car too!

I have seen BG engineers referred to as "boiler dusters" and know that they are always trying to get people to have a new boiler fitted.

After this week, I now realise the huge difference of RGI plumbers and heating engineers.
The RGI plumber I called out on Monday didn't even do any checks or measurements at all.
Best plan is to develop a relationship with an installer you trust to do the annual service, and then they will very likely come and fix it for a reasonable price when it breaks.

Yes in hindsight.
 
Last edited:
Hi, A while back i worked on a university contract which had a lot of these boilers and common faults,

So like mensioned earlier, you really need a GSE to confirm this safely. These are also known for the inner flues to corrode which will also cause it to drop out, and if you're saying its 25 year old, may just be better calling it a day and getting quotes to replace it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have seen BG engineers referred to as "boiler dusters" and know that they are always trying to get people to have a new boiler fitted.
I have had some horror stories myself. In a previous house the switch in my Vaillant boiler failed, and due to a series of unfortunate events that were not entirely the service guy's fault, mixed with a bit of inexperience, he managed to total my boiler in what should have been a £100 repair. I was left with a boiler that needed replacement (in their opinion), a £600 pound bill, and my family and I were freezing as it was in the middle of winter. It is a bit of a long story, and I think I know exactly what went wrong, I can tell you about it if you are interested.

Having said that I have also had some very good experiences.

In today's world labor is expensive and appliances are getting cheaper but much more complicated, and don't last anywhere near as long. This means the pool of people that can economically troubleshoot and find the exact part that has failed and replace it is becoming smaller over time. Very few boilers made today are going to be economical to repair when they are 21 years old.

So I don't think that installers are deliberately trying to rip people off by pushing new boilers, they are just being realistic, and in many cases are actually trying to save people money. If it is a tricky problem that takes a long time to diagnose, on a boiler that may not have parts available, and that has a combustion chamber, flue and heat exchanger that may burn through tomorrow, then it is likely more economical just to replace it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for your reply.

I have decided on a new boiler cost £2,300 mainly because we cannot go on with no heating. Parts are getting harder to find for the Ideal Classic FF250 too.

The plumber said was that I was "pretty clued up"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have had some horror stories myself. In a previous house the switch in my Vaillant boiler failed, and due to a series of unfortunate events that were not entirely the service guy's fault, mixed with a bit of inexperience, he managed to total my boiler in what should have been a £100 repair. I was left with a boiler that needed replacement (in their opinion), a £600 pound bill, and my family and I were freezing as it was in the middle of winter. It is a bit of a long story, and I think I know exactly what went wrong, I can tell you about it if you are interested.

Having said that I have also had some very good experiences.

In today's world labor is expensive and appliances are getting cheaper but much more complicated, and don't last anywhere near as long. This means the pool of people that can economically troubleshoot and find the exact part that has failed and replace it is becoming smaller over time. Very few boilers made today are going to be economical to repair when they are 21 years old.

So I don't think that installers are deliberately trying to rip people off by pushing new boilers, they are just being realistic, and in many cases are actually trying to save people money. If it is a tricky problem that takes a long time to diagnose, on a boiler that may not have parts available, and that has a combustion chamber, flue and heat exchanger that may burn through tomorrow, then it is likely more economical just to replace it.

All of your comments I agree with.
Why we don't fix washing machines anymore.

New boilers will last about 10 years probably have to wait for the manufacturer's engineer to fix them when thy breakdown rather than the local plumber.
Probably have to fork out £150 a year on manufacturer's engineer to service to keep the warranty too.
Hoping to move inside 5 years so new boiler with better EPC should help sale and sale price.
 

Reply to Ideal Classic FF250 boiler does not stay on in the Central Heating Forum area at PlumbersForums.net

Creating content since 2001. Untold Media.

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock