I want to convert my sons Mains fed Shower to a Pump fed Shower.

[4Bodger2]

My son has a Shower Room in his long Cottage that is fed by Mains cold water, the hot water is supplied by a local Powerstream Heater.
The problem is that when the cold water is used at the other end of the cottage, the cold water pressure drops and the Powerstream low flow cut-out operates and the Shower water goes cold.
My proposal is to fit a local head tank (of suitable size) feeding a Pump which will feed balanced pressure cold water to the Shower and via the Heater, hot water to the shower, thus isolating the remote Shower from the pressure fluctuations in the cold water supply. I will have to measure the minimum water flow to ensure the the local head tank does not run dry.
Any constructive comments would be appreciated
Whilst I am not a Plumber, I am an Engineer and experienced DIY man with a good knowledge of Hydraulics, so I can understand the problem, but would appreciate comments from Plumbers who far more experience in these matters than me.
Thanks 4Bodger2

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Can’t you fit an accumulator ?

 

[4Bodger2]

Can’t you fit an accumulator ?

The Stuart- Turner that propose to use comes with an accumulator

 

[gpbeck]

An electric shower.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

The Stuart- Turner that propose to use comes with an accumulator

What’s your pressure flow rate static and dynamic?

 

[4Bodger2]

What’s your pressure flow rate static and dynamic?

I am waiting for my son to measure the flow rates. I know that they not high, because he is having problems keeping the Powerstream Water Heater from cutting out when flow goes too low.
The problem is that hot water for one end of the cottage is provided by a Combi Boiler and this struggles when hot water is being used at the other end of the Cottage, hence the reason for Installing a Powerstream Heater to provide all the hot water to this remote Bathroom. That is why I have proposed to Install a local cold water head tank feeding a single head Pump to provide cold water to this Bathroom and also hot water via the Powerstream Heater to both the Shower and the Hand Basin. This would make the Bathroom completely independant from the rest of the Cottage.
There has been a suggestion of fitting an Electric Shower, There are a numer of issues that made me not go down that route.
1/ The Bathroom has been completly retiled after fitting the Shower and the pipe work.
2/ There is a good supply of hot water available from the Powerstream when it gets the required cw flow.
I am grateful for the interest being shown on this post

 

[4Bodger2]

An electric shower.

Thanks for your reply, I had considered, that but because of the reasons I have outline in my reply to ShaunCorbs,I decided not to go that way.

 

[Timmy D]

Another vote for accumulator.

 

[4Bodger2]

Another vote for accumulator.

What’s your pressure flow rate static and dynamic?

My apologies Shaun for not understanding the use of an Accumulatot in this situation. I worked in the Chemical Industry and never came across an Accumulator. Now I have read up on them I can understand why you proposed one.
I will have to get my son to measure the water pressures, he lives in Wales and I am in Yorkshire, so I can't do any measureing.
I will size the Accumulator on the basis that the average Shower uses 50 L at a flow of 10/12L per Min. and needs a min pressure of 1.5 Bar ?.
Thanks for your interest in this problem

 

[ShaunCorbs]

It may not be acceptable as they work off the existing supply need to know them figures first before we can recommend anything

 

[4Bodger2]

It may not be acceptable as they work off the existing supply need to know them figures first before we can recommend anything

Thanks, I will let you know when my son lets me have the info

 

[4Bodger2]

What’s your pressure flow rate static and dynamic?

I have now got the Pessures. Static 3.5 bar. Dynamic 2.5bar. I have also found out that Mains inlet is only 1/2 inch. This an old Cottage that my son has been updating. All the internal piping is also 1/2 inch
Does this info change your advice?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Accumulator would be fine the the installation remember they have to be 50% oversized due to how they work so 400l will give you 200l of working capacity

 

[4Bodger2]

I am concerned about the weight of a 400l (88G) tank it would be in excess of 880 lbs. The Cottage is old and being single storey, the beams in the Attic are not big, so I think the weight would be too much,also the cost would be £660+
A headtank of 25g ( 112L ) with an inflow of say 5L/min and outflow of 10L/min would cope with the demand.
The cost would be £450/500 with a StuartTurner Monsoon U2.0 bar Single Pump and a 25g tank.
What do you think ?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You would need two 25g tanks as 50 g is the minimum (or one 50g)

Then you would need dedicate supplies from the hot water cylinder and twin tanks / one to the pump then on to your bar mixer

You will be paying around 8-900 just for the materials alone

As you can’t run an electric shower off a shower pump

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

I'd look at upgrading the water main to 25mm, and upgrading the pipework internally to 22mm if possible.

Mira actually make a pumped electric shower, which I never knew about until I came across one.

Mira Elite SE (10.8kW) by Mira Showers

Silent pumped electric shower.

www.mirashowers.co.uk

 

[king of pipes]

I had a similar problem in a cottage I fitted a salamander home boost pump it gives 11 litres of cold water a minute and 1.2 bar and only cuts in when needed it's another option and £350 - £400 . Kop

 

[4Bodger2]

I'd look at upgrading the water main to 25mm, and upgrading the pipework internally to 22mm if possible.

Mira actually make a pumped electric shower, which I never knew about until I came across one.

Mira Elite SE (10.8kW) by Mira Showers

Silent pumped electric shower.

www.mirashowers.co.uk

Hi Thanks for your input, as I have stated before (see Page1 of this saga) the cottage water inlet pipe is only 1/2 inch.and the Boiler is a Combi and cannot supply water to this remote Bathroom which has a Powerstream Water Heater to supply HW to the Basin and the Shower

 

[4Bodger2]

You would need two 25g tanks as 50 g is the minimum (or one 50g)

Then you would need dedicate supplies from the hot water cylinder and twin tanks / one to the pump then on to your bar mixer

You will be paying around 8-900 just for the materials alone

As you can’t run an electric shower off a shower pump

Just to remind you,The HW in this Bathroom is provided by a Powerstream Heater, as the House Boiler is a Combi. (which can only cope with it's local demand) so a remote HW Cylinder cannot be used. That is why a Powerstream Water heater was fitted in this remote Bathroom) I sized the Head Tank on the following basis. 5 min shower at 10l/min ie 50l. A 25G (110L Tank) would therefore be 1/2 Empty after a Shower and allowing 10min before the next Shower and Min flow of 5l/min going into the Head Tank,then the Tank would be replenished.
A 25G Tank would only weigh 250lb which Attic Joist would support. The Accumulator would have been OK but for it.s weight.
Thanks for all your input.

I had a similar problem in a cottage I fitted a salamander home boost pump it gives 11 litres of cold water a minute and 1.2 bar and only cuts in when needed it's another option and £350 - £400 . Kop

Thanks,that is similar to my solution, see my reply to Shaun