I can't believe Corgi Vat Saver is still going

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

Have you any thoughts on this?
We got an email from them.
I have looked over their website and I can't see what loop hole they are using the rules on the HMRC website seem very clear and contradict corgi vat saver.

I have sent CVS an email as follows

[h=1]...[/h][h=1]I was very surprised discover CorgiVatSaver is still in existence. I thought the process you use to reduce that VAT bill was not correct.[/h]

I have just checked on the HMRC website and the most recent document still says when a boiler or whole central heating system is installed the standard rate of VAT applies to the whole job.


I would be delighted to reduce the tax we collect and pay to HMRC but please can you clarify what legislation enables this to happen. There is a rumour that a case went to court, I do not know is this is true or who won.


[h=1]I have looked at this.[/h][h=1]Energy-saving materials[/h]

HMRC Reference:Notice 708/6 (November 2011)

[DLMURL="http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&propertyType=document&id=HMCE_CL_000514"]HM Revenue & Customs[/DLMURL]

Regards
ME

 

[woodsy]

Joined this a couple of months ago after ignoring for several years. Had my accountant look over it before joining and he said it is all above board. My understanding is that certain parts / materials / labour qualify for vat at 5%. Only thing is to quote a price including vat if you intend to keep the savings for yourself.

 

[lame plumber]

the fact you have to show the amount of vat charged on your invoice negates that then

 

[tamz]

Corgi and hmrc had a case over this over a year ago and as far as i'm aware corgi won it which is why they are pushing it again.

 

[Worcester]

Hi TP,
From the document you linked to:

3.2 Heating appliances
The reduced rate applies to the installation of:

• closed solid fuel fire cassettes;
• electric dual immersion water heaters with factory-insulated hot water tanks;
• electric storage heaters;
• gas-fired boilers;
• gas room heaters with thermostatic controls;
• oil-fired boilers; and radiators.

3.3 Central heating systems

The reduced rate applies to the installation, repair and maintenance of a boiler, radiators, pipework and controls forming a central heating system.
This includes micro combined heat and power systems, which are heating systems that also generate electricity.
The reduced rate includes repairs and replacements of such equipment, whether or not the original system was installed under a relevant grant-funded scheme.

So guess it depends wether grant funded (eco or similar at one time or other - boiler scrappage?)

 

[EPH]

the fact you have to show the amount of vat charged on your invoice negates that then

I thought for a non VAT registered customer then you only have to show a total inc VAT and no breakdown. Obviously different if your customer is also VAT registered.

 

[basildog]

Is it only through CORGI or are all customers being ripped off then if a lower rate should apply ?

 

[basildog]

Joined this a couple of months ago after ignoring for several years. Had my accountant look over it before joining and he said it is all above board. My understanding is that certain parts / materials / labour qualify for vat at 5%. Only thing is to quote a price including vat if you intend to keep the savings for yourself.

Why would you keep it yourself ?
People are really hurting and I for one will not play those kinds of games !

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

Corgi and hmrc had a case over this over a year ago and as far as i'm aware corgi won it which is why they are pushing it again.

I knew there was a legal case but never heard the result.
I managed to find it here in simple terms here with link to actual: VAT Optimiser

So Far the legal ruling is in favour of

HMRC.

Vat Optimiser are planning to appeal.

But at the moment if HMRC find you have been doing this you can be forced to pay all the vat that would have been due.
As I was searching online all I could find was plumbers complaining HMRC were on to them and they could afford the unexpected tax bill.

I had a brief email from CVS and telephoned them.
I spoke to a really lovely man - he could have sold me anything and what a sexy Scottish accent he had.

He told me Optimiser (different company) are confident they will win their appeal as not all evidence was presented at the tribunal.

He told me (I don't know if it is true) that BG have a written agreement with the HMRC that they only need to charge 5% on those relevant parts of BG installations so it would be an unfair advantage if the rest of us could not.
He told me the HMRC website that I linked to is guidance - not legally binding and that CVS interpret the law differently. the law is here:Value Added Tax Act 1994
He told me so far CVS have had no conflict/ legal cases with HMRC.

Make of all that what you will. I think I am going to stick with HMRC advice.

This is all only relevant if you are a VAT registered installer.

 

[Worcester]

Clear as mud, as usual with HMRC

 

[tamz]

Interesting to learn they, corgi, had lost the case.
It was around easter time i started getting the letters phone calls and emails regarding the vat saver and i get them every week.
I was going to post a link last night to their wee video of how it worked but you had to put your registration number in to watch it. I watched it anyway and had a phone call about half 9 this morning chasing it up as they knew i had watched it.
Unfortunately for him, as i have a similar sexy Scottish accent it never worked on me :lol:

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

Just to clarify the court case is HMRC v Vat Optimiser. They are a different company essentially offering a similar product to do the same sort of thing. Both companies have been around for ages sending us their leaflets.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

Hi TP,
From the document you linked to:


So guess it depends wether grant funded (eco or similar at one time or other - boiler scrappage?)

Sorry to add to confusion Worcester. This Section 3 is about Grant Funded installations.
I wasn't talking about those.

CVS and VAT optermiser are both in contradiction to section 2 of the VAT doc.
ie - Installing heating controls at the same time as a boiler.

 

[Ermintrude]

We tried test and it's pretty simple only problem is you have absolutely no come back on corgi as they are providing a suggested vat calculation and it's you or your accounts who are truly responsible. I would say don't bother u only save few ££ and it's not worth entering the whole install again on another web database! .

 

[Worcester]

Thanks Mrs TP, i thought I might have it worng

I'm presuming they're working on an interpretation of 2.3.2
However a full central heating system (unless grant funded - eco for instance) would be covered by 2.3.3
So unless challenged and ruled on (and insurace backed by Corgi VAT Saver) then it isn't worth the risk as it will be YOUR money that is non reclaimable from the client. Better if the client ordered it as two jobs with a time interval between 2.3.4

 

[Kev the gas]

If / When the HMRC send me/ my accountant the forms to fill in I am in.

However for the small amount it could save me/business it is not worth the risk.

Kev

 

[tamz]

If it is only a small amount the risk is negligible. A couple of thousand?

 

[Ermintrude]

Yes few k but your paying corgi % of saving 29% ish? So they get 1/3 and you end up with 3/3 of the risk plus the 1/3 u paid them!