HRM Wallstar Oil Boiler - Advice please

[SimonG]

I'd be checking electrode position, once had to fit a burner upside down due to this, don't ask me what difference it should make, but it ran like a train after.
Also at excess air as DaveyHep was alluding to a couple of posts back.

 

[SJB060685]

I'd be checking electrode position, once had to fit a burner upside down due to this, don't ask me what difference it should make, but it ran like a train after.
Also at excess air as DaveyHep was alluding to a couple of posts back.

I don't want to argue Si because I know you're competent but have a look and listen to the video. I'd be checking what I said first as its clearly igniting, yes electrodes and air affect these as we all know but the video is telling me more than that.

 

[Simonvr46]

I hear pre purge and solenoid click, fuel flows and sounds like ignition, then it sounds and looks like fuel stops flowing and burner stops a second before lockout. What parts did you say were changed?
At the moment I would be checking what the pressure does moments before flame stops, you could have a dodgy coupling slipping or the pump drive keys is on it's way out. The capacitor and motor seem fine and to answer one of your previous questions I would check to see if the old capacitor is screwed into motor frame, it looks like theres a collar there but I cant remember off the top of my head.

Components changed so far are capacitor, clear hose, fire valve/nrv, photocell, solenoid and ebi transformer. Also DKO control box replaced in 2012 but was doing this prior to this. Boiler was serviced in September.

 

[SJB060685]

So this has been a problem since 2012?

 

[Simonvr46]

So this has been a problem since 2012?

Yeah pretty much, I’ve been with other half 5 years and we had mainly used immersion heater for hot water and kept pressing reset to get boiler started for heating or used log burner in living room.

 

[SJB060685]

From what I've seen and heard from video is its igniting, then theres a loss of flame during safety time and it's going to lockout. It could be as Simon above suggested about air it could also be what I said. Have you taken black cover off the front to expose air damper adjuster and made a note of what setting it's on.

 

[Simonvr46]

I'd be checking electrode position, once had to fit a burner upside down due to this, don't ask me what difference it should make, but it ran like a train after.
Also at excess air as DaveyHep was alluding to a couple of posts back.

Boiler sometimes will work ok for 7 days before it suddenly locks out.
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From what I've seen and heard from video is its igniting, then theres a loss of flame during safety time and it's going to lockout. It could be as Simon above suggested about air it could also be what I said. Have you taken black cover off the front to expose air damper adjuster and made a note of what setting it's on.

I’ve taken photo and attached it.

 

[SimonG]

I don't want to argue Si because I know you're competent but have a look and listen to the video. I'd be checking what I said first as its clearly igniting, yes electrodes and air affect these as we all know but the video is telling me more than that.

Difficult to tell with TV going full tilt and granddaughter trying to drown the telly out with her tablet. Not a fan of listening to videos for diagnosis.

I did hear fan, good spark but the ignition sounded a bit muffled.

Also good to see that we are not having to wait now to get answers.


Plus the golden rule, just because it's new out the box, doesn't mean the new part is good. Seen a few new parts being faulty.

 

[SJB060685]

It looks like it's in the right area but without test equipment i couldn't say for sure. So help us further, how often have you been using the immersion and log burner? 8 years is a long time where if you were using the boiler more often the problem will have presented itself by now.

 

[Simonvr46]

It looks like it's in the right area but without test equipment i couldn't say for sure. So help us further, how often have you been using the immersion and log burner? 8 years is a long time where if you were using the boiler more often the problem will have presented itself by now.

the problem with the boiler has always presented it self, it’s just that we’ve made do with it and worked around it.
We thought it had been sorted when we had those parts replaced, it’s mainly winter that we have the issues as using boiler more for heating.

can’t get boiler to start up this evening......

 

[SimonG]

Just going straight to lockout?

 

[Simonvr46]

Just going straight to lockout?

Yeah it’s trying to start up like in the video and just keeps locking out.

 

[SJB060685]

Solenoid click but no ignition?

 

[SimonG]

Stick a couple of fingers over the air intake on the burner to see if it fires. Don't block it just reduce the amount of air its pulling in.

 

[Simonvr46]

Stick a couple of fingers over the air intake on the burner to see if it fires. Don't block it just reduce the amount of air its pulling in.

Tried that but made no difference, pressed reset button again and let it start as normal and it started. I’m totally confused.......
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Solenoid click but no ignition?

Yeah think so, can see pump drawing oil, transformer is sending spark to electrode and then goes lockout.

 

[SJB060685]

From what I've seen, heard and read I'm still leaning towards a pump issue. I'm not saying it is but it's what I'd run a couple tests on first. To prove or disprove ignition and atomization things have to be done but I'm not going to say what. It could be air related as well but I'm not convinced.
I cant say anymore, from here on in it needs a decent engineer with good experience and the right gear.

 

[SimonG]

Have you taken the burner out before?

If you have, take it out and take a picture looking down the blast tube. Make sure you unplug coil or turn it all off.

 

[Simonvr46]

From what I've seen, heard and read I'm still leaning towards a pump issue. I'm not saying it is but it's what I'd run a couple tests on first. To prove or disprove ignition and atomization things have to be done but I'm not going to say what. It could be air related as well but I'm not convinced.
I cant say anymore, from here on in it needs a decent engineer with good experience and the right gear.

Ok no probs, thank you for your help.
Going to give someone local a ring tomorrow for advice before getting them to come visit.
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Have you taken the burner out before?

If you have, take it out and take a picture looking down the blast tube. Make sure you unplug coil or turn it all off.

No never taken burner out before. Although I work as a mechanical fitter im not confident with taking burner apart.

 

[SimonG]

No problem, respect somebody who knows there limits.

Was the nozzle changed at the last service?

Whereabouts in the country are you?

 

[SJB060685]

By all means update us if you get a result.

 

[Simonvr46]

No problem, respect somebody who knows there limits.

Was the nozzle changed at the last service?

Whereabouts in the country are you?

Will give most things ago but know when I’m at my limits lol.
Yeah nozzle and filters was changed last service.
Im in Lincolnshire.

 

[SimonG]

Too far for me. Hope you find somebody to sort it and please let us know what the problem was.

 

[Simonvr46]

By all means update us if you get a result.

Yeah sure will. Hopefully if I get sorted I’ll be able to pass on my fix to someone else.
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Too far for me. Hope you find somebody to sort it and please let us know what the problem was.

Bacon, sausage and egg butty???

 

[Best]

Fool the photocell into seeing light once burner fires and see if burner continues to fire while photocell out. Handy on Sterling burners.
That will prove flame is poor for some reason or photocell had obstructed view.
Does sound like flame burn is barely making it

 

[Simonvr46]

Fool the photocell into seeing light once burner fires and see if burner continues to fire while photocell out. Handy on Sterling burners.
That will prove flame is poor for some reason or photocell had obstructed view.
Does sound like flame burn is barely making it

Boiler started up 1st attempt this morning.......

I did try this awhile ago. I think when I removed photocell burner continued running but when I covered photocell it shutdown if my memory serves me correctly.
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Took burner unit off and had a look. I’ve attached photos. Tip of nozzle is damp with oil.
Any suggestions?

 

[Best]

Boiler started up 1st attempt this morning...

I did try this awhile ago. I think when I removed photocell burner continued running but when I covered photocell it shutdown if my memory serves me correctly.

Combustion is most likely then poor if flame isn’t partly being obscured from photocell view.
But can have one of many causes.
Nozzle could be faulty, or air setting wrong or burner drawing in flue gases, or oil pump pressure is set wrong, are some possibilities.

 

[SimonG]

Nozzle being damp is fine. Dont like the position of the electrodes though.

 

[Simonvr46]

Nozzle being damp is fine. Dont like the position of the electrodes though.

Just a quick question, the capscrew that is in the main body of the burner just below the black plastic cover for the photo cell etc is that what is undone when boiler serviced? If so should the gasket be replaced?
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could the electrode be causing the issue of lockout? If it’s not positioned correctly could the photocell fail to detect it sometimes?

is the blast tube ok or should that be cleaner?

 

[SJB060685]

The Alan key under the black cover is used to undo and remove the burner, you've detached the whole thing. The electrodes don't look right in terms of position and could be part of the reason it doesn't light sometimes, it doesn't explain why it sometimes ignites and then loses flame during 5 second safety time though.

 

[Simonvr46]

The Alan key under the black cover is used to undo and remove the burner, you've detached the whole thing. The electrodes don't look right in terms of position and could be part of the reason it doesn't light sometimes, it doesn't explain why it sometimes ignites and then loses flame during 5 second safety time though.

That capscrew is seriously tight, should the gasket be replaced when burner is split?

wish id paid more attention to what he was doing when he serviced it.
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I’ve contacted a 3 local heating engineers, 1 said he would go with pump bring issue. 1 said possibly pump but wouldn’t be sure and the other said it’s the control box.

 

[SJB060685]

That capscrew is seriously tight, should the gasket be replaced when burner is split?

wish id paid more attention to what he was doing when he serviced it.
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I’ve contacted a 3 local heating engineers, 1 said he would go with pump bring issue. 1 said possibly pump but wouldn’t be sure and the other said it’s the control box.

When you split the burner any gaskets need to be replaced if not In good reusable condition. I've not experienced on this burner but have on a Riello where the seal had perished causing it to draw more air which was extinguishing the flame like you're experiencing at times.
I did not say for sure it was the pump, only suspicious and I based that on what I've seen heard and read, like I said I cant be sure without checking a couple things. Control box can cause this issue yes and the DKO does things slightly different in lockout mode but again it's hard to say without being there.

 

[Simonvr46]

As far as I’m aware the only parts that have been replaced during service are the filter and the nozzle, no mention of replacing gasket.

should that capscrew be stupidly tight to undo?

with regards to blast tube does that look in good condition?

 

[SJB060685]

Image from manual to show the long bolt you should be removing. Blast tube looked ok, usual wear and tear but overall in acceptable condition. Couldn’t see if there were any obstructions to the cell though

 

[Simonvr46]

View attachment 42435

Image from manual to show the long bolt you should be removing. Blast tube looked ok, usual wear and tear but overall in acceptable condition. Couldn’t see if there were any obstructions to the cell though

Found that image in the HRM handbook. Just didn’t know about how tight that screw should be? Used to screws and bolts having torque setting on them lol.

 

[SJB060685]

These things do quite often have torque settings yes. Alan key below on burner casing looks like the one going by image. Been a while for me on this burner lol