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theanalyst

Plumbers Arms member
Plumber
Gas Engineer
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Bit of a weird one this.
Went to a customers today and among a few rads they want me to fit, they have a problem with the pipe feeding their washing machine in the garage, freezing!
its not surprising as it runs from waist height out of the kitchen wall , then in poly it runs down the wall outside, into a half hearted looking trench with some broken concrete in, and across 2 metres in the trench, back up the garage wall to about three ft (in poly!!) and then into the garage, where it supplies the washing mc.

Anyway, they want it redoing properly and I'm racking my brain thinking of the best way to do it...

I can get under the kitchen floor and drill through under ground level, and send it into the (dugout) trench, but the garage floor is concrete so it is going to have to go up the wall outside for a course of bricks or two, before it goes into the garage.

Has anyone got any bright ideas as to how to tackle it?

I can lay a 1 1/2" pipe in the trench (I know it should be 4" for main supply) and into under the kitchen floor for the pipe to run in, but I cant think how to properly protect it going into the garage.
Thinking Poly would be best? or should I use a trace heating element on copper??? It would be most embarassing if they froze on them after its done :teeth_smile:. It froze the other night so its getting cold!
cheers
 
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Re: How to prevent a pipe from the kitchen, running outside into the garage - freezin

Run it in PE. Dig the trench at least 750mm deep. Lag any and all exposed pipework with a decent lagging and either wrap it in rubber sheathing or case it in.
 
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Re: How to prevent a pipe from the kitchen, running outside into the garage - freezin

The washing machine will freeze anyway, seen that a few times over the last couple of winters.

Trace heat the pipework with a frost stat to operae it.
 
Re: How to prevent a pipe from the kitchen, running outside into the garage - freezin

Tell them to buy a washing board. The washing can be done indoors then.

And when they get bored use a few thimbles and they've a musical instrument!
 
Re: How to prevent a pipe from the kitchen, running outside into the garage - freezin

you could use some pre lagged pipework??

Uponor Supra

probably a bit expensive tho.
 
Re: How to prevent a pipe from the kitchen, running outside into the garage - freezin

cheers guys,
I didn't know about the pre insulated pipe option. Like you say, it's not cheap, but then neither is a 10metre pipe trace kit, and the labour involved in fitting either!
I think they are going to cry when they find out how much its going to cost for what they are gaining.!!!!

Croppy can you elaborate on the rubber sheathing your on about? Cant find any!
 
Re: How to prevent a pipe from the kitchen, running outside into the garage - freezin

Use a core drill and a couple of extension bars and drill down from the inside of the garage down at a slight angle, enough to break through into the trench just above the foundations. If it is a raft found, just drill down through it.
The pipe needs to be insulated with waterproof lagging (armaflex) and preferably sleeved down to a depth of 760mm.
Poly in the trench and rise inside the house.
Fit a thermostatic tube heater (about ÂŁ30) with the stat set low next to the pipes and washing machine to stop it freezing in the winter.
 
Re: How to prevent a pipe from the kitchen, running outside into the garage - freezin

just a quick and prob stupid question but as plumbers we fit a cold pipe under a hot pipe etc so it doesnt heat it up. legionella blah blah blah but it it was piped next to a tube heater or above a tube heater what if the washing machine wasnt used for a few days ? wouldnt the water become slightly heated ? would it require a NRV ? sorry is a stupid question but bugging me
 
Re: How to prevent a pipe from the kitchen, running outside into the garage - freezin

best to fit a non return inside the property, to protect againts soil contaminates etc.....
 
Re: How to prevent a pipe from the kitchen, running outside into the garage - freezin

I agree with Tamz. Drill down at a slight angle through the garage floor and meet up with a trench dug to 750mm deep outside. But you can use a 40mm masonary drill, you can hire these from a hire shop up to 800mm long or use a shorter one with extensions. A twist dill is easier than a core drill I think, and you don't have to keep cleaning the core out of the drill. Use PE pipe from one end the the other and if using 20mm PE then sleeve it through the concrete with a bit of 32mm PE or some 38mm waste pipe. PE is better as easier to get in and more flexible, but you may not have a small piece hanging around if you don't use it all the time. I would sleeve both ends.
Then, as he says, recommend you install a small heater with a frost stat. next to the washing machine to stop that freezing
 
Re: How to prevent a pipe from the kitchen, running outside into the garage - freezin

Croppy can you elaborate on the rubber sheathing your on about? Cant find any!

Something we use more in commercial, literally thin sheets of UV proofed rubber cut into 4" strips, wrapped round the pipe and lagging and bonded to itself.

But Tamz's suggestion was actually better.
 
Re: How to prevent a pipe from the kitchen, running outside into the garage - freezin

use pe then trace wire it then insulate it then slide a rainwater down pipe over it 2 1/2". not had one freeze yet
 
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