How long does it take you to do a bathroom?

[Phil]

I have been doing constant bathrooms this year, I keep saying "this is definalty the last one I do this year" but I've just taken on two more.

I work totally on my own and each bathroom I take great care to get everything bang on perfect and totaly durable etc.

The average bathroom with toilet, basin, bath/shower enclosure, built in/exposed shower, plaster ceiling, full floor and wall tile, moasic boarders, tile trim absoluty no corners cut.

Average 15 days.

I've just been for another quote and he said the first guy said he could do it in 7 days on his own, there was a hell of a lot of work in that bathroom.

I'm not bothered if I get the job or not but I fear he will go for the 7 day option, but I'd love to see the result, just another rushed bodged bathroom.

 

[ocentric]

I have the same approach & 15 days sounds about right when you're doing everything on your own. You do need a bit of contingency for when customer changes spec etc. Someone might do it in 7 days, but it will be terrible!

 

[dontknowitall]

I'm glad I'm not the only one reckoning on a good 2-3 weeks. I've not done enough of them yet to want to stop taking more on though.

One thing I particularly like doing is buying a couple of nice extras (e.g. candles or decorative bottles) and giving the bathroom a really, really good clean and polish (including cleaner in the WC!) Seems to go down especially well with some customers.

 

[justlead1]

I find this interesting. Can you post a break down of the works. Eg. Isolating and removing old suit 3 Hours, Running new pipework to sanitary fitting position 3 hours, etc.

 

[warren]

Hi Phil,

I feel i could help on this question , because bathrooms are my thing.

7 day does sound really suspect, we both now it takes time to do things properly and get a solid job. Im sure you do a first class job, but its one thing saying to the client and another thing showing.

Can you show him any of your previous work ?

On the other hand, do we think a client would want to be in their eyes, in upheaval for 3 weeks.

Sometimes i suffer the same questions. where i allow enough time to do it properly, alter cast iron pipe to below floor level as to get waste s under floor, nice new soil coming upto meet pan connector. hide all pipes. mark out with sanitary in place as to get pipework well hidden but access to border valves. and so on with tiling and woodwork. Its our passion isnt it. No doubt something is a miss with this guy.

Here is what i do now, i bring in someone elsejust to give me a hand to move things along, basically just to labour , cut tiles , mix up plaster. i do all the install work so keeping it under my quality control.

I cant let go! Do you feel the same, is this why you do it on your own ? So you know its done right.

One thing i have learnt in a lot of years doing this, after 10 days people really want you out the way.

would be glad to hear more from you , this is an area i work in all the time

Warren

 

[warren]

i think 2 weeks is the norm.

Do you find that clients these days want the extra bit to really make it personal to them, like little alcoves to put their shampoo. I have been asked to do alsorts, i think its great but when you think about the man hours these little details add on, especially when they are done properly

 

[dontknowitall]

There's the difference ... "New pipework in three hours"

It takes longer than this to pull up the floor, organise the pipe runs, notching and drilling joists so hiding as much pipework as possible. Another area where hiding pipework is not possible is to have chrome pipework coming up from the floor in exactly the correct place. To do this properly takes time and trouble.

Justlead1, I'm not having a go at all - just trying to show how do a better quality job takes time. I've changed a WC in a couple of hours before now but the quality just wasn't there for that job (and nor was the money!!)

 

[warren]

do you guys have any pictures of your work ?

i love to see quality work.

I agree with dontknowitall, time just seems to disapear, but its worth it to look at the finsih job and the client say it has turned out better than i ever thought.

Most jobs i never get a snag list, im quite smug on loft jobs where my plumbing and bathroom work is a "no snag" and the loft contractor has about a page....lol

 

[dontknowitall]

Seeing as you asked ...!!

Before and after

View attachment 1083

View attachment 1084

 

[warren]

Thanks for pics

Warren

 

[Phil]

I may decide not to carry on with bathrooms next year, I can only work on them during normal working hours and I'm out quoting and doing other jobs in the evenings. I find when I';m only doing a bathroom and not other jobs I can do them alot quicker.

Most bathrooms are recommendations and the ones that aren't I wont do the job if I find them awkward in any way.

With me being a perfectionist I like to take my time and get top notch results, this is why I'm always busy with them.

I would love to be able to get perfect results in ten days but it wouldn't be long enough, the bathroom I'm doing at the moment for instance will be a good 15 day'er, its for a neighbour of a friend. They have an ensuite to use and they are at work all day (leave me with key) so their disruption is minimal. This is comman to most of my bathrooms.

But I will probably give them a rest for a bit next year, I do a lot of work for a local landlord who has 30-40 houses, I can turn those round in a week as he just wants a very basic bathroom with those awfull white 6 inch tiles on rough walls. He knows I don't like doing them in a week but he's happy with the result (not my usuall high standard but still durable and long lasting).

 

[Phil]

Nice work dontknowitall.

 

[dontknowitall]

Thank you! Lovely customer to work for and this makes a huge difference as I'm sure you know.

 

[warren]

I think the most important thing to remember is that is the way you work, you get a good result and the client is happy.

I think if a potental client is bickering over money or time, let someone else deal with them.

You know your good, just think to yourself "sh**, it takes time to be this good"

all my pics are on my fan page on facebook, blimey i even made a video of a finished install. pm me if you wanna see (my old laptop hard drive went lost all my pics on that, all the res is wrong to pull them down from facebook

 

[PlumbBobBob]

absolutely the nicer the customer the more you want to bend over backwards

steve

 

[dontknowitall]

Or forwards if she's pretty ...

COUGH!!! Dontknowitall ... Honestly!!

 

[justlead1]

Please do not take my post as a jib. I am sincerely interested in the timing of element involved in such a task. It may well identify areas where both time and money saving could be made.

 

[warren]

It takes about 20 years to do this....lol

About 2 weeks, Travatine tiles gobble up alot of time.

 

[dontknowitall]

Nice one Warren!!

Justlead1 - I felt no offence with your post - hopefully you read mine as I intended it to be read too!

 

[PlumbBobBob]

very nice warren

steve

 

[Phil]

Stunning pictures warran, how long have you been doing bathrooms?

I like the way you've continued the grout lines from the wall to floor, not easy if the room is out of square!

Your attension to detail is like mine, but it would take me twice as long to get that result.

I find the tiling the most time consuming, the endless cutting!!!

The straight foward plumbing is fairly quick though, built in showers can take time aswell, it pays to spend time getting the valve solid and the right distance back.

Those fixed showerheads are a pain, the ones that come with a 1/2" brass backnut, whats that all about? I resort to using a backplate elbow and fix it in such a position that when I come to screw in the showerhead after tiling it ends up pointing down and is watertight. Again, time consuming.

 

[warren]

Thank you Phil and Steve,

i have been installing bathrooms for 25 years, running my own company for 8 years.

Tip* mark out the floor first, make sure it will give you good cut on the walls, then tile floor first, just spirit level off of the floor joints and you have every wall match up....easy

Attention to detail is everything, turn out the quality and the client is blown away. is it pleasing to the eye???, bingo,thats what the client sees.
I dont cut many of my own tiles. Lets put it like this, im to expensive to cut my own tiles i have a lad for that. I do what he cant!

Cut your install time down by using someone to do the lacky jobs. Do you honestly lump 30/40 sqm of tiles up the stairs and into the bathroom yourself, get up and down from your trestle to cut tiles. sweep up, cut bits of batten, clean up fittings, put your sheets down, wash off the grout, pull your own bends.

I dont, but i oversee a lad that does it can really cut down on your time, also i dont find myself so shattered at the end of a day.

I guess that the back nut is for stud walls, god knows how you are suppose to tighten it up after....lol. Like you i use a wall plate elbow.

Its all about finding the balance between quality and urgency. if you spend 3 weeks on a bathroom whats the labour charge like ?,

I love what i do and im glad i have found so many good trdesmen on this forum , thought we were a dying breed

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

Perhaps a few well padded clients can afford a man for three weeks. What are your "el cheapo" landlords bathrooms like? Please don't get me wrong I am not criticising just pointing out that most Plumbers have to do "el cheapo" jobs for clients who have problems affording the "posh" stuff.

Also we don't have "lackeys" slavery has been banned since 1806 in the UK. But some companies have yet to catch up with the idea perhaps?

 

[warren]

Bernie,

My wife does moan at me for grammar and english, but she is a English teacher.

I am a bathroom specialist, i think my pic's prove that.

Sorry for the incorrect use of words prehaps, helper.... Each to there own i guess

Regarding your first comment although i think that was for someone else, here is my take on it.

Like i said its a balance, i have completed lots of cost effective bathrooms, the sanitary fittings are generally lower priced, they are more basic in design
and generally ceramic tiles.

I would say that a basic bathroom you could say around a week, still completed with a good finish and using quality materials, so price quite a bit less.

Dont like the word "el cheapo"

its the difference between fitting a close coupled pan and cistern
or
a grohe frame and wall hung pan and then dressing the frame with tiles or a nice hardwood

Sounds like Phil will not cut corners to make it quicker, as i say" it is what it is"

I think when you are in the realms of a bespoke bathroom, its like telling a brain surgeon to "hurry up"

 

[tamz]

A good plumber "should", in the majority of cases be able to strip out and rough a standard size bathroom easily in a day.
Give another 2 days to reform anything that needs doing and fit bath and tray then 2 days to tile the place (say 16 meters wall and 4 on the floor)
Another day to grout and a day to fit ware and clean down.
7 days (probably less)

Anyone who thinks a quality job can't be done in 7 days needs to break a bit sweat and stop thinking so much.

 

[Bernie2]

By saying "el cheapo" I was of course referring to what a customer is prepared to or can afford to pay, not the quality of the work.

In the economic climate at the minute I assume high spec bathroom work may be a bit thin on the ground.

So how do you reduce your time element whilst still keeping up quality and so meet the lower price?

Lets be honest, there are all kinds of drying times to take into account if your doing plastering to any degree, as well as installation times.

 

[warren]

A standard type bathroom could be done in 7 days, although i find 16sqm a small bathroom for sure.

Standard bath and tray, ceramic tiles, basin and pedestal, close coupled pan and cistern.
Taps out of bath basin. yes no problem.

vs

Free standing bath, wetroom shower area,impey tanking system, taps coming out of walls or floor. re plastering part wall and ceiling, new ip65 lights, inline extractor fan, shaver sockets, led lights and mirror. porcelin tiles or trav ( even more time ) . Alcoves.set in mirrors. audio, speaker systems. underfloor heating. grohe frame with hidden cistern, wall hung basin with chrome trap.

The 2 are totally different animals.

saying that i have done basic style bathrooms in 4 to 5 days it all depends whats in them

 

[tamz]

Bernie

There really is no such thing as a cheapie bathroom nowadays. Sure you can get someone to swap a suite for £250 and the customer will do their own tiling and such but most people, even in the schemes, who are looking for a new bathroom know exactly what they are after. They all watch the telly and read the magazines and want some of that. We guide them on some things but mainly they get what they want. They want the full service done at the one time. Plumbing, joinery, electrics, tiling even painting. Few of the ones spending the money now want a cheap £200 suite. It costs more than that for a half decent pan.
If you start offering the lot you are up well over 5k for a std 3 bed semi bathroom without being extravagant.

 

[tamz]

Warren

Why don't you start an apprentice?

 

[warren]

Bernie,

That is the bottom line, its all about what the client can afford to pay, i look to be honest with the client. i listen to what they want to do and try to give them a few options can get a feel for what type of money they will look to spend, if someone wants the earth but doesnt want to pay the going rate, i just say that i cant help them. Im quite felxible but some people are unrealistic.

No , it would suprise you at how many people are having bathrooms done that are 10k plus.

You have to work effectively, organise materials so you are on the job all day, think and plan ahead as you are installing. experience will tell you how you ccan get over problems.

I use rapid setting adhesive walls and floor, mix up what i need and i know i can fit in time. I plaster myself saving being kicked out of a room by the plasterer.
If a wall has to be stripped back to brick work on many occasions i dot and dab.

There are lots of time saving methods i have picked up over time, somethings you can crack out like rip out and first fix, whilst tiling and second fix demand more time.

Warren

 

[REDSAW]

thought 3 weeks on my own was good, will have to get a young lad in next time,

 

[tamz]

You might have hung the picture

 

[warren]

I have had 3 apprentices in 8 years, i guess i havent found the right one yet.

All on PAYE

They didnt cut the mustard, i dont know where the passion has gone, seems like young guns just dont want to work.

I am mega fussy with install, how we treat someones house, how we treat the customer. Maybe i expect to much.... but then again people come back to me and say we want Warren, so i guess it answers its self.

I do want to find good people to work with, bathroom fitters and tilers but they have to be S*** hot, but thats another story

 

[warren]

See i thought that bathroom looked to American to be a bathroom in Notts....lol

 

[REDSAW]

See i thought that bathroom looked to American to be a bathroom in Notts....lol

well spotted, just tried downloading one of my travatine b/rooms but i cant locate the pictures so i stuck this one on. the air con above pic gives it away i recon...