How long can it take to replace a fully back-to-wall WC pan?

[Ric2013]

Bit of a head-scratcher and I know the answer is 'how long is a piece of string'.

A potential customer wants a fully enclosed back-to-wall pan (the type with no access from room side) replaced. Not something I have done before.

While there is an access panel where the concealed cistern is hidden, I have my doubts as to the quality of the work that is behind the concealing wall and there is no way of walking behind the wall as it backs onto an external wall with no other access. Just a feeling I get from looking at other work that has taken place in the house. (Also said I'd carry out an industry standard pressure test on the soil stack while I'm there for reasons I won't go into here).

I haven't given a fixed-price quotation for obvious reason, but I told the customer it's probably going to take between 4 and 8 hours and stated what my half-day and day fees would be. We don't discuss pricing on the open forum, but I believe my rates are competitive in this area.

If the customer wants to find someone cheaper who won't work to the proper standard good luck to that customer, but I am wondering whether I perhaps have scared the customer off by giving an unduly high estimate.

Full day as a worst case scenario for a pan swapout? What do people think?

 

[SimonG]

I would go a day, if its quicker then it wont be as expensive.

Could be done and away in a couple of hours but if it takes the day then you are covered.

 

[snowhead]

Is this pan IDENTICAL in every way, outlet height, floor / back profile, flush pipe inlet or is it a close match.?
Is the pan waste rigid into the stack / frame outlet or is it a flexi?
Is the old pan sitting on floor tiles / laminate / vinyl or has the floor finish been cut around the pan?
Don't bother,,
You can't answer most of that till the old one is out.

 

[JCplumb]

Sounds like one of those jobs I'd rather not do, I'd be pricing high to cover potential issues and wouldn't be upset if they went with someone else. They can be a nightmare when you have to pretty much finish the job to test for leaks and if you find one you have to start from the beginning again and pull the pan out. No thanks...

 

[Ric2013]

Thanks gentlemen,

The moral support is much appreciated. Sometimes I lack confidence and overthink things so it is great to hear from those with more experience that (as suspected) this is genuinely one of those jobs and not just me worrying excessively.

 

[snowhead]

I think the main thing is to warn the customer it may not be straight forward, no matter who does the job.

 

[WC1]

If the estimate turns out to be a bit high (which you only know after the job) you can give a discount (they'll love you) If you find its too low once you get stuck in you're snookered. It's one of those where you're def. better off on the high side.
Chin up, try not to worry.

 

[Ric2013]

If the estimate turns out to be a bit high (which you only know after the job) you can give a discount (they'll love you) If you find its too low once you get stuck in you're snookered. It's one of those where you're def. better off on the high side.
Chin up, try not to worry.

My attitude entirely. I would far rather complete the job in 2 hours and charge accordingly than quote for half a day and find myself getting home at half six in the evening. Which was why I gave an estimate and told them my day (and half day) rates. I'm not worried. I just never think I'm much good... until I see what the competition is up to lol.
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I think the main thing is to warn the customer it may not be straight forward, no matter who does the job.

True, and perhaps I should have put it in those terms. Still, I look forward to the customer getting someone else in and then telling me it's leaking. Because we all know how hard it is to get good plumbers (when you want the cheapest possible job).

 

[centralheatking]

These things to re fit , fix or replace are a nightmare anyway up. Gain your customers confidence explain the problems for you and the customer about pricing this job.
Verbally state you hr rate and a rough estimate of how long ..this is better than you or your customer losing out in my opinion as I dont want to lose out myself as the fitter but by the same token as a customer and fair man never want to gain my anothers lose ....centralheatking

 

[rpm]

So, your gut tells you trouble ahead, listen to your gut feeling not your wallet.

 

[Ric2013]

So, your gut tells you trouble ahead, listen to your gut feeling not your wallet.

Not trouble, just that the job may be difficult.

You may remember I'm the nutter that will happily drill joists and run copper tube through the centres with a joint every 16" if necessary. I seriously don't mind a difficult job... if the customer is prepared to pay me for the time it takes.

 

[Stigster]

Not trouble, just that the job may be difficult.

You may remember I'm the nutter that will happily drill joists and run copper tube through the centres with a joint every 16" if necessary. I seriously don't mind a difficult job... if the customer is prepared to pay me for the time it takes.

Well a properly soldered joint is going to be as reliable if not moreso than the pipe itself so the amount of joints doesn't matter. You know this of course and I'm just thinking out loud now. I take it you do this because you hate to use plastic?

 

[oz-plumber]

You consider yourself a good Plumber - fair enough. ( as well as a nutter - even better )

Up sell the job, detail the unforeseeable problems you may encounter and explain to the customer what your thoughts are.

Explain you will have to replace the pan outlet connection and maybe even have to alter it.
Most pans will have different outlet connection dimensions from the wall and you have allowed for alteration to the sewer in you quote.
The cistern to pan connection may have to be redone for the same reasons.
If the dimensions are correct, you will at least have to replace the sealing rubbers for a good seal on the new pan.

FWIW, don't feel shy or guilty about quoting / charging a customer the right price for a job - the way you see it.
Someone might come along and charge less than you - so be it.

At the end of the day - if you do something wrong, it's their excretement you will be dealing with free of charge, while doing the repairs at your expence

 

[Ric2013]

I take it you do this because you hate to use plastic?

I'm not a fan of plastic.

 

[Ted808]

I whole heartedly agree with all the points above- imagine:
you charge a "reasonable rate" and the job goes really well - better than you expected but there's one slight snag, the rubber on the pan connector is slightly off centre- manufactured like this, you don't notice, as your price/ time is just about up.
You wrap up and go home, everything is tickity boo. Until Xmas eve when they have visitors and flush many more times than usual. It starts to weep, the leak doesn't get noticed straight a way, but there's a small puddle a few days later they call you back, you can't see anything wrong. Now you're very busy on other jobs, so advise them to monito. They worry. They call you back the next day ....... get it yet? - charge top dosh and do a proper job, take your time. If it's a fiddely job but straight forward, time is what you need.
SO ONE DAY minimum.. drink tea and think if you've got spare minutes.