Homework-unsafe situations

[amy]

Hehe, sorry about the title, just made me feel younger,lol.
Ok, The situation we have been given is a ILFE fire looks in a poor condition, some of the coals have a white ash like residue covering them. The coals have obviously been moved at some point. The appliance looks as though it hasn't been serviced in the last cpl years.
There is a young child wondering around occasionally using the coals as play bricks.
For my answer I would test for spillage, if it passed I would AR the appliance recommending new coals and a service. The correct form would be filled in and AR label attached in a prominent position and appliance turned off with customers permission.
If spillage test failed I would ID,with customers permission dissconnect the appliance and cap off, filling correct forms in and ID label. Arrange either new coals and a service or option of new fire.
In both cases advise customer of CO alarm if none present and of the need for a secure fireguard.
Sound ok?

 

[REDSAW]

why a.r if an appliance passes tit test and spillage test and is in sound working order.
advise on new coals and a fire guard for the sprog, otherwise it sounds like your selling services.imo.

 

[amy]

Hi,
Hmm, I see what you mean. Thx for that, I really need to brush up on my unsafe situations procedure. I just thought with the poor quality coals it may be AR of spilling in the future. Would we be penalised for AR if we were really concerned about the general state of the fire combined with wrongly positioned grotty coals.
Thx, Amy

 

[paulster]

I think it would be acceptable to
AR fire if you were concerned about coals being dodgy its up to individual on job to make the call.

 

[GrahamM]

Hehe, sorry about the title, just made me feel younger,lol.
Ok, The situation we have been given is a ILFE fire looks in a poor condition, some of the coals have a white ash like residue covering them. The coals have obviously been moved at some point. The appliance looks as though it hasn't been serviced in the last cpl years.
There is a young child wondering around occasionally using the coals as play bricks.
For my answer I would test for spillage, if it passed I would AR the appliance recommending new coals and a service. The correct form would be filled in and AR label attached in a prominent position and appliance turned off with customers permission.
If spillage test failed I would ID,with customers permission dissconnect the appliance and cap off, filling correct forms in and ID label. Arrange either new coals and a service or option of new fire.
In both cases advise customer of CO alarm if none present and of the need for a secure fireguard.
Sound ok?

You mention recommending a service above, so in this scenario you are only doing a visual in line with servicing another appliance; is this correct?
If so, you would not be carrying out a spillage. If in your expert opinion the ash is signs of distress/spillage on an open flue then the appliance should be ID'd end of. Otherwise you can only advise on fires condition and fitting CO detectors.

 

[paulster]

i took it as she was carrying out landlord in wich case she would still be carrying out smoke test on applaince

 

[amy]

Hi,
Yes,You are correct, this is just a visual after servicing another appliance.
My problem is that the appliance looks in a bad state with the ashy coals which are all in the wrong position. Before I test it I have no idea if it spills or not.
I thought the best solution would be to test for spillage then I would know which route to take. I would feel very uneasy about doing nothing and I can't really ID untill I know it's spilling. Thx for your advice, Amy.

 

[GrahamM]

Just one of those things. You have no authority to start testing the appliance unless it is included in service contract. Your limits are visual checks.
If you cannot find any clear evidence during these visual checks of fault with the appliance then your hands are tied. All you can do is highlight to the responsible person the potential dangers involved, give recommendations, note this down on your paperwork and hope they act on it. You will have acted responsibly within the rules/regs.
All you can do!

 

[amy]

Hi,
Thx for your reply, You are correct.
I checked it out with Gas safe, they told me we are only doing a visual risk assessment here, If we see any AR or ID then act accordingly, If not then advise customer of any recommendations and note this on the paperwork. They said if the engineer felt the need to perform a spillage test then there is nothing stopping him, but there is no requirement to do so.
Thx very much for your valuable knowledge, Amy.

 

[Toddyplumb]

But, if you do spillage sureley you need to do flue flow as you do not know if the flue is intact !

 

[amy]

Hi,
I don't know, just repeating what he said. I suppose if it failed , whether flue problem or not, it would be ID anyway and need further investigation.

 

[GrahamM]

Working outside the guidelines may have the potential to backfire on you. Unless the appliance is part of the service contract all you are required to do is the visuals and advise. If you take it upon yourself to do a spillage and it fails, you are duty bound to shut it down. I do not know the potential legalities of this, but one potential issue is the tenant kicks up a stink and you then have to explain why you carried out a spillage when you had no place to. You were working outside the guidelines.
You could be making trouble for yourself.

 

[amy]

Hi,
Thx for the info,
Once I understood the ruling I followed the procedure you advised. Like you say, If thats the requirement, why make more work, I just advised customer of all problems verbally and in writing.
Amy.

 

[Reg Man]

I know this is an old thread, but felt the need to comment. Amy I think you were spot on with your first post. Reason being, if you felt that the coals were not correctly arranged on the matrix, then it is AT Risk. It is vital that the coals are located in accorrdance with the MI's. Should be a fire guard to prevent children touching the fire anyway, all though if they do pick up a hot coal they won't go near it again.

Incorrectly located coals will cause excessive sooting and at worst can cause spillage, this along with the poor combustion can cause an incident.

 

[DMI]

i totally agree reg man. i find NCS difficult because of my age and have not had enough experience with older boilesr ect ect. wheres the best place to check if i was to be unsure? thanks

 

[kirkgas]

i totally agree reg man. i find NCS difficult because of my age and have not had enough experience with older boilesr ect ect. wheres the best place to check if i was to be unsure? thanks

log onto GSR website and download TB001 which is the current version of the IUP

 

[y22edy]

i guess i would class it ar as the coals need to sat in the correct position on the coal bed as per m.i or else it would cause flame impingement leading to incorrect combustion.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

just to say ,I like the way we all share our experience and knowledge to help each other in this FORUM !!!