Hiring an apprentice pros/cons

[shyguy2005]

After a long hard week I’m seriously thinking of taking on an extra pair of hands.

Anybody got any advice pros and cons on employing an apprentice ??

I’ve never done it before but finding it really hard going on my own at times especially when doing full heating jobs.

Tools end up in every room on the job , vans always a mess and just hard going.

So any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

 

[SimonG]

I don't need the grief or the extra expense.

Maybe in a few years time.

 

[townfanjon]

Make sure he gives you his phone when he clocks on and give him it back when he knocks off .... Otherwise it will be in his hand ALL day .

 

[Deleted member 96286]

I took on a school leaver on a government paid employment scheme. He lasted 2 weeks before phoning in to say that he wasn't coming in that week because he had a migraine.
The work he was doing was very little, and I was prepared to send him to college. He missed his chance with me and I told him to go do one.
There's so much red tape involved in taking on a 16 year old. They're not allowed up ladders, or to use power tools or anything that we plumbers do on a daily basis. In fact all they are allowed to do is to stand and watch and pass you tools from your tool kit. I HATE someone standing over my shoulder while I'm working, it's so off putting.
If you take someone on, look for someone whose part of the way through his apprenticeship and has been paid off because his firm has gone bust, someone like this will be desperate to work and to do their best so that they can finish their apprenticeship.
Some of these 16 year olds, expect to leave school and walk into tradesmans wages. They are the lazy barstwerds and the ones to avoid.
Think and chose very carefully.

 

[Deleted member 32524]

Another self employed plumber to work alongside you? Jobs would take half the time. Maybe go to the local college and find an older "apprentice" going through their ACS?

 

[Millsy 82]

Before I foolishly went back employed a couple of years ago I was debating whether or not to take on an apprentice.

The pros are
Cheaper wages whilst training
A second pair of hands for those awkward bits, heavy bits, high bits
Potential to grow business in a few years time
You can mould them to your way of working.

The cons are
You become an employer and the h&s taking on an apprentice is a ball ache
If you are ill you still have them to pay.
When you want holiday what do you do with them
You are responsible for there work
They will be rubbish for the first few months at least so you will be slower not quicker
Possible wont be able to drive or if they can stupidly high insurance
Potential they could do the training then decide they dont want to be a plumber so you invest your time, effort and money for them to go and work elsewhere
Without sounding harsh kids dont seem as enthusiastic as the used to my apprentices have steadily got worse.
They will be more interested in snap chatting pictures of their balls than piping up a toilet.
They will slow you down initially and then you have to double check there work
Probably a few more I cant think about.

The biggest thing for me is they seem to come out of school now and expect to know everything do everything and so on.

I think if I was to look at taking someone on it would be someone like what my brother did. He worked as a gardner then worked in an office and hated the job, he then did night school 2 days a week for 3/4 years at his own cost to be a sparky. He then got a job and worked his behind off to get better.

My reasoning is
If they have paid and stuck with it for 3/4 years then they are more likely to want to learn when they get a job.
They can drive cheaper insurance etc
Less likely to be playing on their phone
Yes you will have to pay more but the learning curve will hopefully be steeper than someone doing an apprenticeship as they want to learn quicker.
If you have a holiday then you may be able to give them a few days small jobs. Customers dont like having 17 year olds in as they think they dont know what they are doing but a 30 year old they know no different.

I would avoid the 6 week courses though at all costs.

That's just my opinion you can still get decent apprentices they are just fewer and further between.

 

[J4Plumb]

There are more mature people out there who have invested their own money and time to retrain but struggle to find trades to take them on to complete their practical training in the real world. I am trying to complete a small portfolio for my NVQ 2 plumbing but have been struggling to find a plumber willing to let me work (free!!) alongside them.....might be worth looking out for someone like that......

 

[SimonG]

It's illegal to have somebody work for free. Discussed at length many moons ago on here.

 

[Deleted member 32524]

Kids don't want to work for a living or learn a trade, too much like hard work. They want to be youtubers and gamers.

 

[Millsy 82]

Kids don't want to work for a living or learn a trade, too much like hard work. They want to be youtubers and gamers.

You have pretty much described my son!

I've told him you can be a youtuber/ gamer in your own time and if it takes off then great but as soon as you get old enough you will be getting a job!

 

[chris watkins]

I despair with posts like this bash the young, tar them all with the lazy brush.

Normally a couple of things standout & I deal with them day in day out.
1.You have forgotten what is is like to be their age & to have just left school moving into the world of work.
2. Who taught you & gave you your first job ? isn't part of being in a trade receiving when you are young & giving it back when you are older?
3. A lot of those that moan about apprentices do so because they make no effort to recruit the right people nor do they take time to manage them once they are on board.

Just like taking on any employee - you need to again management skills.

 

[chris watkins]

If you are considering taking someone on shyguy this & JTL may help.

Taking on a JTL Apprentice - JTL

www.jtltraining.com

 

[centralheatking]

There are plenty of under 20's whom want to get their hands dirty
my colleagues whom fit everyday report mixed experiences.
First criteria...Driving Licence
Second Criteria ...own transport
this means the person is mobile sensible and usefull even when they
know nothing ..they can go pick up stuff
Third criteria ...background , they dont need to be amazing just steady, go meet the parents
Fourth criteria ...if YOU are not prepared to teach by example, accept their mistakes and lala moments then dont bother
Fifth ...If you have under 2o,s yoursekf then you need to understand them a bit...in the same way.
ALL my boys step and mine god knows there are plenty are carving out a career in MES in uk building industry often its word if mouth
centralheatking

 

[Mrb]

I took on a school leaver on a government paid employment scheme. He lasted 2 weeks before phoning in to say that he wasn't coming in that week because he had a migraine.
The work he was doing was very little, and I was prepared to send him to college. He missed his chance with me and I told him to go do one.
There's so much red tape involved in taking on a 16 year old. They're not allowed up ladders, or to use power tools or anything that we plumbers do on a daily basis. In fact all they are allowed to do is to stand and watch and pass you tools from your tool kit. I HATE someone standing over my shoulder while I'm working, it's so off putting.
If you take someone on, look for someone whose part of the way through his apprenticeship and has been paid off because his firm has gone bust, someone like this will be desperate to work and to do their best so that they can finish their apprenticeship.
Some of these 16 year olds, expect to leave school and walk into tradesmans wages. They are the lazy barstwerds and the ones to avoid.
Think and chose very carefully.

Not allowed up ladders!!!

During my first week as an apprentice I was tasked with feeding flue liners down chimneys for back boilers, on the last one they took the ladder away and left me there till home time!

 

[Andy-36]

As someone looking for an apprenticeship I would say a few issues have come up rightly or wrongly.

1 - Money, most common discussion I've had with people. Expectations on how much one would earn is generally unrealistic. So I would make it clear right at the start of the process what they will be paid. Also knowing that you wont make any money off this person for a while however this is also down to how your able to develop this person.

2 - Transport, Do they drive or not. Are you going to put them on the vehicle insurance. Keeping in mind they can't use personal vehicle to go get things from the merchants useless they have business insurance.

3 - Training, What you want them to achieve vs what they want to achieve. Some are just happy with a NVQ level 2 whilst others will want every qualification under the sun.

4 - Goals, What is it they are after, Do they see this as a quick 2/3 years get the qualifications and go it alone or do they see it as wanting to be part of a team for many years.

5 - Younger vs Older, Weigh up the pro's and con's of taking on someone that's younger vs an older person. I've spoken to many employers that say they would only ever employ an older person due to being let down in the past with the younger generation.

6 - Type of work you do, I think sometimes this is overlooked but an apprentice might be a bit more useless short term if you do lots of longer projects or new builds vs jobbing. What I mean by this is with new builds after a couple of houses they might have some sort of idea what's going on so could pre-empt you and bring up the basin or bath just before you say go grab the basin vs going to lots of a jobs a day whereby he stands their like a rabbit in headlights trying to take it as much as possible.

I'm a little bias because as I say I'm looking to get into the industry myself however I do think if the numbers / finances allow you to take someone on go for it because if you get the right person in the long term it will help.

 

[chris watkins]

3 - Training, What you want them to achieve vs what they want to achieve. Some are just happy with a NVQ level 2 whilst others will want every qualification under the sun.

As far as I am aware the new Plumbing & Heating qualification starts this coming year. The C&G 9189 this is a 4 year program at level 3 only, so if you want a funded program for your apprentice this is now the only option.
On the plus side they will come out the other side with ACS if you do gas, and Water Regs + Unvented.

 

[centralheatking]

What happened to the informative logo, Chris W has put up a post
which I like but dont know much about so would like to thank him for teaching myself something I did not know...alot of UKPF is to my mind about learning....Dan....centralheatking

 

[Andy-36]

As far as I am aware the new Plumbing & Heating qualification starts this coming year. The C&G 9189 this is a 4 year program at level 3 only, so if you want a funded program for your apprentice this is now the only option.
On the plus side they will come out the other side with ACS if you do gas, and Water Regs + Unvented.

Yes I was only reading that the other day. I think it makes a lot of sense having it as a 4 year program whilst also including most of what someone would need. The plus point is that hopefully if you find the right person it gives you at least 4 years with them.

For me I would have no issue staying with someone for 4 years if they were teaching me the correct way and pushing my development as hard as I was driving it myself.

 

[chris watkins]

Good luck Andy hope you find an apprenticeship soon.

 

[centralheatking]

Yes I was only reading that the other day. I think it makes a lot of sense having it as a 4 year program whilst also including most of what someone would need. The plus point is that hopefully if you find the right person it gives you at least 4 years with them.

For me I would have no issue staying with someone for 4 years if they were teaching me the correct way and pushing my development as hard as I was driving it myself.

And Andy, you could help teach your boss man and bring him right up to speed...You see If I was in the market for staff this would be
the way I would look at it all, The reason why we dont need staff is because Api 2006 etc is a plumbing design house having its roots in domestic and commercial plumbing and heating, MES etc. But the model I teach you and by return you inform me is a winner. Thats what some plumbiers etc forget. Unless you are in Manchester I know an outfit with 100+ fitters boss man my best friend
centralheatking

 

[OffshoreGas]

I'm going through a similar process, personally I'm looking for people who have a good work ethic and I'm happy to work with. If you're willing to put the time in and help a perosn grow they will generally pay you back in spades. Treat them like family and be open and honest with them.

Think about the skills your you don't have your business would benefit from and look for employees with them. The day to day practical stuff of any trade is generally easier/quicker to pick up than all the skills you don't realise you have.

 

[Szabrina]

Hi everybody,

I am curious to find about any cost you incurred when taking on an apprentice. I have been approached by an agency, who told me, except from a salary, there are no costs. So I went ahead, and hired an apprentice. Now almost 2 months later I received a contract to sign from the agency, that has costs that me as an employer have to pay. Not even detailing what the charges are for, except one where it states that if the apprentice fails their first EPA, the employer (me) is required to cover the financial costs of a resit, between £800 to £1000, plus an additional £65.

If anybody has more insight on apprenticeships, would be great to know as I cant sign a contract that is asking me to pay for something i have never agreed in the first place.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Tea-Break]

There should be at present many Government schemes/incentives available for employers taking on an apprentice.
So in terms of training costs are minimal. Although, the part about EPA resit costs are correct. The EPA will only take place after the Apprentice has completed all his formal training i.e. after four years.
Thus their (apprentice) progress will be monitored by their Training Provider (College or Training Centre). There are also annual phase tests to pass, so they will not progress onto EPA until they are ready.
Careful selection of the candidate is key, as is communication with the training provider and parents/guardians.
IMO avoid private agencies in preference to a good local College.
We all had to start somewhere, if you can provide a safe learning environment, then give a youngster a chance.