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Discuss Grey Hep2O Fittings Unscrewing! in the Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice area at PlumbersForums.net

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I've searched this forum but cannot see anyone else reporting a similar problem with the last generation grey Hep2O fittings: they unscrew!

Our whole house was re-plumbed in 1999/2000 and Hep2O fittings were used throughout for all out-of-sight fittings - just over 200 of them. One evening back in October last year we heard running water and discovered that a joint had "burst" with the central heating water pouring out into the a cavity wall below DPC - fortunately. Could not understand at the time how it had "burst" but, with half the thread (that the cap screws on to) exposed, that's what it looked like. Thought that the pipe leading from the joint - which went through a conduit under the screed to a radiator some 6m away - must have "shrunk" and pulled the joint apart so I added an additional pipe on an elbow to give it plenty of room for movement and replaced the fitting which, on close examination, looked fine with no damage to the threads. Oh well, one of life's little mysteries . . .

Then on Monday just gone, my wife spotted a new brown patch on a ceiling downstairs! Pulling up the carpet and floorboards above it, I discovered the fitting that I am showing in the photo. The 22mm pipes are part of the main return path that runs the length of the house with the 15mm going off to a nearby radiator.

It is now clear to me that the pipes must move with the many times a day expansion and contraction of boiler firings and rests and that these movements must exert a micro-twist on the fitting cap. The friction of the pipe against the lip of the cap would appear to be sufficient to unwind the cap until - after 20 years - the o-ring is no longer being held firmly in place and out comes the water!

It is also now clear to me why Wavin did away with screw caps in the current generation of white fittings!

Knowing how many fittings I have under floorboards and in (now) inaccessible ceiling voids, am I going to have to spend the rest of my days in our house just wondering where and when the next water leak is going to appear or do I rip up floors and tear down ceilings and replace the lot!!! I can't see Wavin helping me with that . . .

So I would be VERY interested if anyone else has experienced this phenomenon. Did you speak with Wavin and what was their response?

Thanks, Andrew
 

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Have you checked any other fittings to see if the nuts are loose but not showing thread yet?
Did the October pipe have a sleeve inside the pipe?

It looks like you need to access all the fittings to check and or replace while your (or someone) is there.
 
Interesting what the view of your house insurance is/ will be.

I remember another article about Hep2O O-ring failure (somebody was collecting faulty ones to send off) but not unscrewing that I remember.

Silly question: how much pipe support is there and how much is specified by manufacturer ?

I am horrified by some of bathroom jobs I've seen recently where if you look in the cupboards etc there is just as the crow flies plastic, no pipe support, no protection against washing baskets etc. etc.

Recently had some plumbing quotes from a local company. I was very embarrassed to ask what fittings they use behind walls and floors but very pleasantly surprised to be told soldered. You do have to consider the health risks (and PPE) though of soldering for a living

Cheers,

Roy (amateur)
 
. . . just another thought: Could you use a smartphone borescope and just drill a few holes rather than taking the house to bits. Other thing might be pressure testing?
 
I vaguely remember the thread our friend Roy above mentioned and if memory serves me correct the manufacturer was not interested in helping the situation, would have to find the old thread to be certain though.
This is a tricky situation to be in as I like you would be very paranoid of the same happening again, probably at a large cost to rectify. I personally am not a fan of plastic pipe for several reasons, some of which you have already mentioned. To be certain of a sure fix would be to repipe the whole lot in copper, although this will be a lengthy process at a big cost and inconvenience. As the guys have mentioned perhaps consider a bore scope for your phone and make some visual inspections being as little invasive as possible.
I personally would redo in copper if possible, I have a hard time sleeping as it is
 
Oh and Roy, please stop calling yourself an amateur. You’ve been here long enough and always offered a sound approach. You may not have the tickets some of us do but that doesn’t mean you don’t understand what we do and in my opinion there’s no such thing as an expert. No one knows it all, that’s the joys of mechanical and electrical engineering, there’s always something new to learn.
 
As the guys have mentioned perhaps consider a bore scope for your phone and make some visual inspections being as little invasive as possible.
Imo a cheap borescope with its own screen is now better than the ones which connect to your phone.
 
Have you checked any other fittings to see if the nuts are loose but not showing thread yet?
Did the October pipe have a sleeve inside the pipe?

It looks like you need to access all the fittings to check and or replace while your (or someone) is there.
Thanks for replying. The other fittings I have seen are either tight or only required a 2-5mm twist. Not sure what you mean by "a sleeve inside the pipe", the pipe that was in the screed was running (loose) within a 25mm ribbed plastic conduit. I don't disagree with the sentiment of your final sentence; it's just the enormous amount of work and disruption that would entail!
 
Interesting what the view of your house insurance is/ will be.

I remember another article about Hep2O O-ring failure (somebody was collecting faulty ones to send off) but not unscrewing that I remember.

Silly question: how much pipe support is there and how much is specified by manufacturer ?

I am horrified by some of bathroom jobs I've seen recently where if you look in the cupboards etc there is just as the crow flies plastic, no pipe support, no protection against washing baskets etc. etc.

Recently had some plumbing quotes from a local company. I was very embarrassed to ask what fittings they use behind walls and floors but very pleasantly surprised to be told soldered. You do have to consider the health risks (and PPE) though of soldering for a living

Cheers,

Roy (amateur)
Thanks for replying. Most of the Hep2O pipework is under floors and either rests on the plasterboard (within its insulation pipe) or goes through joists or cross-noggings and only clipped where it needs to be kept away from neighbouring pipes &/or cable. I've just checked the (2003) Technical Handbook wherein it states: "Where piping is ... run within concealed
spaces (eg. through suspended timber floors) clips can be reduced or omitted". There is also no cautionary wording about the risks of twisting or unscrewing within the 104 page booklet.
 
. . . just another thought: Could you use a smartphone borescope and just drill a few holes rather than taking the house to bits. Other thing might be pressure testing?
I have a couple of these but I fear it would take many holes to find and then get a good view of all the fittings let alone making good all the holes invisibly afterwards.
Many of the hot water pipes have their insulation pipes overlapping the fittings and would thus severely restrict viewing angles.
Furthermore, there is a lot going on within the underfloor space: not only the central heating pipes but also the pipes for the hot water system (including secondary circulation ones), and the cold water systems for both hard and soft water. Then there all the cables for the power, lighting, alarm and structured cabling. It's very busy in there and not conducive to waggling a borescope probe! :)
 
Its only a 5mm hole needed.
 

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Is this a product you have used and recommend, with adequate picture quality?
I've got this one. The badly applied screen protector was me.
I bought this and a several hundred pounds bosch and sent the Bosch back.
 

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I have a couple of these but I fear it would take many holes to find and then get a good view of all the fittings let alone making good all the holes invisibly afterwards.
Many of the hot water pipes have their insulation pipes overlapping the fittings and would thus severely restrict viewing angles.
Furthermore, there is a lot going on within the underfloor space: not only the central heating pipes but also the pipes for the hot water system (including secondary circulation ones), and the cold water systems for both hard and soft water. Then there all the cables for the power, lighting, alarm and structured cabling. It's very busy in there and not conducive to waggling a borescope probe! :)
If you already have a couple of scopes then surely worth having a go in say three places to then make a decision on how to proceed. Silly question though: Do you have photo to help you before it was all boarded up? (To know where to aim). I would use a cable tracker to avoid the electric cables.

Also keep in mind with the above at what point to discuss with the insurance.

If the above doesn't work, then think I'd pick a couple of places (choose key areas) to take the boards up (or ceilings down) to inspect.

Best of luck.

Roy
 
I've got this one. The badly applied screen protector was me.
I bought this and a several hundred pounds bosch and sent the Bosch back.
Assume smartphone versions would be the way to go for a home owner as more cost effective? (Assuming you don't sit on your phone etc.)

Cheers,

Roy
 
Assume smartphone versions would be the way to go for a home owner as more cost effective? (Assuming you don't sit on your phone etc.)

Cheers,

Roy
No, they are rubbish and generally a right faff to connect to phone.
 

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