Grant VortexBlue Oil Boiler

[DiggerDave]

Currently doing a refurbishment of our place.
Camray 2 with RDB burner has served us well since 1988
So, time for an upgrade to a nice new low emission, high efficiency oil boiler...
.....The Grant VortexBlue External seems to tick all the boxes
Vortex Blue: External | Grant UK
Anyone have experience with these boilers?
Obviously, any information and recommendations will be gratefully received and faithfully applied

 

[SimonG]

Speak to your oil engineer.

 

[muggles]

Get a Hounsfield

 

[Bogart]

Am in similar boat with a Camry 5. Still works faultlessly but decided on changing. Getting a Grant Boiler House model. Worcesters are apparently, though good boilers, over complicated and more expensive than a Grant.

 

[DiggerDave]

Am in similar boat with a Camry 5. Still works faultlessly but decided on changing. Getting a Grant Boiler House model. Worcesters are apparently, though good boilers, over complicated and more expensive than a Grant.

Interesting that you are in the same situation in having to decide which upgrade to buy
Love the nice red look and efficiency ratings of the Grant boiler house model. Let us know how you get on please...
Meanwhile, the whole house refurbishment continues with the main focus on the kitchen. The old Camray 2 was de-commisioned about 6 weeks ago. Just when it got colder
Have now decided that the way to go will be a system Internal Grant boiler
Vortex Blue: Internal | Grant UK
This will be installed in the old attached garage, which is due to be converted to a utility room/store/shower room and WC etc
The flow and return will be up and over, along the landing to the hot water tank. New 3 port valve (old one was gravity HW) and controller etc.
Our local oil engineer does recommend Grant boilers, however, he has not yet worked on the latest VortexBlue, so my original question still stands
Has anyone experience on the 'new' Grant VortexBlue range of boilers?
They certainly appear to be more efficient and capable of reducing emissions.
Finally, I am looking at a 'system' boiler package. This will replace our old vented/gravity system. Any observations on this upgrade

 

[SimonG]

I'd go s plan rather than y plan.
Also look at additional expansion vessel as vessel supplied with boiler tends to be inadequate.
Have you considered going unvented for hot water? Pressures and flow permitting.

 

[DiggerDave]

I'd go s plan rather than y plan.
Also look at additional expansion vessel as vessel supplied with boiler tends to be inadequate.
Have you considered going unvented for hot water? Pressures and flow permitting.

Thanks for the advice on S plan and extra expansion vessel
It would make sense, because at the moment we have 12 radiators and a JG UFHS in the conservatory. The demand will no doubt increase.
Don't want to go down the unvented HW route. We have Solar PV on the roof and oil boiler goes off in the summer
If you think of anything else, keep it coming......

 

[Bogart]

I'd go s plan rather than y plan.
Also look at additional expansion vessel as vessel supplied with boiler tends to be inadequate.
Have you considered going unvented for hot water? Pressures and flow permitting.

I posted recently on the CH forum about my setup, boiler some 25m away from property and pump in house. Best suggested I convert the CH to a sealed system and leave HW as now gravity fed. Have done some pressure tests using outside tap fed in 15mm this test point is outside the boiler house by coincidence. Honestly not sure what the figures tell me. Flow rate is 14L/min. Static pressure 1.75 bar. When I open the outside tap it drops to zero!

 

[Millsy 82]

I'd go s plan rather than y plan.
Also look at additional expansion vessel as vessel supplied with boiler tends to be inadequate.
Have you considered going unvented for hot water? Pressures and flow permitting.

I know the new combis now come with bigger vessels not sure about the system boilers.

 

[WHPES]

I fit mainly the Vortex Blue boilers. Rock solid piece of kit. What really attracts people is the 10 year full parts and labour warranty available through the Grant GOne installer scheme. They come with a 24 litre expansion vessel as standard so rarely needs an extra vessel.

 

[Bogart]

Why do you think they can offer a 10 yr warranty on Blue boilers where the rest get 5 year max?

 

[Chris1990]

Firebird, the new models are lovely. The new Elco burner is a thing of beauty.

 

[WHPES]

Use an S plan rather than a Y plan. BTW with the Grant Vortex Blueflame models, using a Grant G1 accredited installer gives you a full 10 year parts and labour warranty.

 

[Chris1990]

Use an S plan rather than a Y plan. BTW with the Grant Vortex Blueflame models, using a Grant G1 accredited installer gives you a full 10 year parts and labour warranty.

Using a firebird VIP installer also gives you the 10year. Not just grant offer this. Id recommend you look into and try the new elco burner on the firebird. The new combi is a thing of beauty.

 

[muggles]

Using a firebird VIP installer also gives you the 10year. Not just grant offer this. Id recommend you look into and try the new elco burner on the firebird. The new combi is a thing of beauty.

No oil combis are things of beauty, they're all hateful

 

[Millsy 82]

No oil combis are things of beauty, they're all hateful

Amen to that!

And the firebird combis you still need to fit additional expansion vessel which nobody ever does so they will just leak like a sieve. The grant combis now come with a 24ltr I believe.

 

[WHPES]

I wouldn't touch Firebird with the proverbial end of the stick. Grant Blueflame all the way. If it goes wrong, everything is covered fo 10 years

 

[DiggerDave]

I wouldn't touch Firebird with the proverbial end of the stick. Grant Blueflame all the way. If it goes wrong, everything is covered fo 10 years

It's great that you actually install and recommend the boiler that I am intending to have installed
One quick question for you:
We have recently installed a water softener
So for filled up the new unvented 'system' boiler (not a Combi) would you use soft water or the regular mains water?
We live in a very hard water area

 

[WHPES]

For system water it doesn't really matter. It's not going to be constantly refreshing but you keep the same water in for ever until you come to do any work on the system. Always be sure to add inhibitor. If you constantly have to keep topping up, then it may cause a problem, but if that is ever the case, you need to address the root cause anyway.

 

[DiggerDave]

The installation of our new Grant VortexBlue system boiler is now complete with S plan.
Boiler is now in the garage and the S plan valve are with the new larger cylinder in the airing cupboard on the first floor landing
The Grant GOne installers did a good job which give me the extended warranty etc
Now I'm fine tuning it all and getting the balance right before the winter
Quick question on the setting up of S plan control - I have noticed that when the HW is calling for heat and then the the CH calls for heat then obviously the flow is reduced to the radiators, and not reaching the furthest
I assume this is usual is to be expected.
Is it recommenced that maybe the HW should be on continuous or set to come on maybe an hour before the CH?

 

[Chuck]

Quick question on the setting up of S plan control - I have noticed that when the HW is calling for heat and then the the CH calls for heat then obviously the flow is reduced to the radiators, and not reaching the furthest
I assume this is usual is to be expected.

It's standard practice to have the DHW zone programmed to come on in the morning for an hour or so (long enough to heat a full tank of water) and then go off when the CH is on during the day. If you are heavy consumers of hot water a half-hour boost for the DHW mid-afternoon will probably do the trick and will happen at a time of day when the starvation of the CH will be less noticeable.

Some people throttle the DHW zone to avoid this problem, but the above approach is preferable in most cases, IMO.

 

[DiggerDave]

It's standard practice to have the DHW zone programmed to come on in the morning for an hour or so (long enough to heat a full tank of water) and then go off when the CH is on during the day. If you are heavy consumers of hot water a half-hour boost for the DHW mid-afternoon will probably do the trick and will happen at a time of day when the starvation of the CH will be less noticeable.

Some people throttle the DHW zone to avoid this problem, but the above approach is preferable in most cases, IMO.

Thanks Chuck - this is just what I expected to hear
The standard times on the Honeywell put both DHW and CH on together
So have now re-programmed to get the DHW on an hour ahead of the CH
It will all change when I go for continuous over the winter
Thanks once again

 

[Brambles]

Digger,

Whilst programming the DHW to operate outside the window for central heating is fine ( that is normally done to optimise old systems), not when setting up newly installed boilers. Bear in mind that to raise the temperature of 210 litres by 40 degrees will only use around 12kw.

If, at this time of year, when your heating and hot water are on concurrently you are not feeding the last radiator(s) the system is either undersized or not properly designed / piped.

On a well designed system, the impact of generating a tank of hot water from cold whilst concurrently heating the house should be minimal at an ambient outside of zero degrees C. If you are experiencing the problem when the ambient is around 13 degrees, winter may be a challenge for you.

I thought that your plan was to design to a 12 rad system with capacity for further expansion?

I would haul the plumber who designed the system for you back and establish exactly what parameters he /she considered for you.

 

[DiggerDave]

Digger,

Whilst programming the DHW to operate outside the window for central heating is fine ( that is normally done to optimise old systems), not when setting up newly installed boilers. Bear in mind that to raise the temperature of 210 litres by 40 degrees will only use around 12kw.

If, at this time of year, when your heating and hot water are on concurrently you are not feeding the last radiator(s) the system is either undersized or not properly designed / piped.

On a well designed system, the impact of generating a tank of hot water from cold whilst concurrently heating the house should be minimal at an ambient outside of zero degrees C. If you are experiencing the problem when the ambient is around 13 degrees, winter may be a challenge for you.

I thought that your plan was to design to a 12 rad system with capacity for further expansion?

I would haul the plumber who designed the system for you back and establish exactly what parameters he /she considered for you.

Thanks Brambles for your advice
However, hauling the plumber back isn't an option - he lives here and put the original system in 31 years ago
So gonna make the best of what we have got with a few mods as required.
Back in the day, 22mm F & R was installed with 15mm to/from the rads.
All rads now have new or nearly new TRVs with a nice bypass for overrun etc

On a positive note the VortexBlue works very well and is super quiet

 

[SimonG]

Any adjustment on the cylinder feed for throttling back the flow?

 

[DiggerDave]

Any adjustment on the cylinder feed for throttling back the flow?

Thanks for this suggestion Simon
Any recommendations for doing this please?
At the moment when the DHW valve is open it's full throttle
In the meantime, I'll adjust the start times to avoid both commencing together....

 

[Brambles]

Digger Dave,

If you calculate the required hot water load and the initial ( early morning ) heat load it will give a reasonable indication as to how the flow rates may be divided. Without wishing to consider for you to spend more money - look at Honeywell Evohome. It’s expensive ( £700+), but is very effective at simply zoning ( up to 12 zones) which makes it easier to optimise a heating / dhw system with a boiler that is slightly undersized.

I use it very effectively on a heating system in an old uninsulated house with a 25kw boiler feeding a 210 litre unvented tank and 18 radiators. The Boiler is (in my view) undersized by 5kw - but Evohome has enabled me to tweak an optimise the system to such an extent that it is now an effective system.

Hope this helps

 

[DaveyHep]

So long as your tank and pipes are well insulated, I would leave HW on all the time.

 

[SimonG]

Thanks for this suggestion Simon
Any recommendations for doing this please?
At the moment when the DHW valve is open it's full throttle
In the meantime, I'll adjust the start times to avoid both commencing together..

Any valve will do the job.