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Discuss Gas to outbuilding - Pottery Kiln in the Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice area at PlumbersForums.net

Messages
2
Hi I wonder if anyone can help please.

I'm building a new small house and propose to install a natural gas kiln in an outbuilding.

The new house house will probably have a combi boiler 24-28kw & gas cooker hob (say 8kw).

I have no technical information of my kiln [25 yrs old] - manufacturer can provide NO support.

Looking at similar kilns and some previous experience its burners are rated at around 190,000Btu [55kw I think?] and would require a 7" water column pressure at full tilt.

So by my rough calcs - and I'm not an engineer of any description: kiln + gas combi+cooker= around 80kW- 90kW

The Meter box to be approx. 7m from the highway/gas main [4"main].

Total distance from Highway [via gas meter] to kiln shed approx. 27m

Propose to "t" off after the meter into say 32mm MDPe buried externally around the perimeter of new house to kiln shed - distance from gas meter to kiln shed approx. 20 metres. Is it permitted to use yellow gas mdpe pipe buried externally on the consumer side after gas meter?

Total distance from Highway [via gas meter] to kiln shed approx. 27m

Will probably request a 32mm incoming service from Cadent.


  1. So will probably need a U16 Meter. Does that sound right *** anyone?
  2. Any thoughts on gas meter box size & suppliers ,ie future proofing for smart meter? [It will need to be a ground mounted box as no space for a recessed wall meter box]
  3. Does the incoming supply look reasonable or would you reckon I need 50mm mdpe service?
  4. Am I going to get a decent pressure at the kiln as its a long run at max. 27metres?
  5. Is the pressure going to be too high for a standard combi say an Ideal Logic+C24 (24Kw) / Viessmann Vitodens 100-W (26 kW )?
  6. Presume there's a method for the gas engineer to adjust the pressure at boiler to its operable limits?

Is it ok for my groundwork contractor to buy & lay 32mm yellow mdpe for the 20metre length from meter to kiln shed? It was ok 30 yrs ago when I last had a gas kiln for builder to lay the yellow dupont (mdpe) pipe but regs may have changed. As said previously all gas connections etc by Registered Gas Engineer - we'd just lay the 20m of pipe & tape up the ends. I do remember that gas kilns need a larger supply pipe not just for demand but to act as a "reservoir" to compensate for a surge when the supply to the gas burners is increased to get the kiln to max. temperature around 1320C.

Thank you. Apologies if there is another post that covers this/similar.

All work would be done by a reg. Registered Gas Engineer - none appointed yet as only at DPC level placing external ducts/drains etc...

My Other option is to find a competent engineer to convert the burners to run off propane bottles and not bother messing with a 20m run of mdpe from meter to shed.


Thank you
 

oz-plumber

Esteemed
Plumber
Messages
2,865
We can't give gas advice to you.

But I will say, what you intend to do will require a lot more than guess work to achieve a beneficial outcome.

You will need someone with the knowledge and ability to do the project from start to go.
Meaning, working from the inlet supply pressure at your gas meter to the ventilation requirements for the outbuilding where the kiln will be operating.

Not overly hard for someone who knows what they're doing.

Just find that someone
 
Messages
1,802
I have no technical information of my kiln [25 yrs old] - manufacturer can provide NO support.
I can't see a Gas Safe installer being willing to install it under these circumstances.
Looking at similar kilns and some previous experience its burners are rated at around 190,000Btu [55kw I think?] and would require a 7" water column pressure at full tilt.
How big is it? 5.5kW would be more usual for a home kiln.

The chemistry that happens inside kilns can produce toxic fumes and these need to be dealt with by proper ventilation. Old kilns often have asbestos insulation. If the manufacturer is refusing to provide information that's a red flag.
 

IND_Nick

Gas Engineer
Messages
200
I would agree with the reservations stated above about the kiln etc. However if you go ahead it may be worth contacting your supplier and looking into a completely separate supply for the out house. I have a customer that has office pods in their large garden and each one has it's own MPRN Individual Supply. So each pod has a meter, small kitchen hob and combination boiler. Very easy for the homeowners to maintain/update etc.
 

scott_d

Plumber
Gas Engineer
Messages
5,264
I would make sure I had someone lined up to fit/connect the kiln before you spend lots of money on the gas supply and meter.
 
Messages
2
I can't see a Gas Safe installer being willing to install it under these circumstances.

How big is it? 5.5kW would be more usual for a home kiln.

The chemistry that happens inside kilns can produce toxic fumes and these need to be dealt with by proper ventilation. Old kilns often have asbestos insulation. If the manufacturer is refusing to provide information that's a red flag.
My gas kiln is similar (different british manufacturer- british made) & slightly larger than the one in link below. Bearing mind mine is about 10% bigger internal volume and the U value of kiln wall not as good as efficient, I estimated my kiln 50-60KW - albeit the one in the link is propane. I'm well aware of fumes issue, doing it 35 yrs, there'll be a hood canopy + vertical flue & airbrick in the shed wall. Had a mains gas kiln before about 2/3 size and had a single burner 165,000 btu so 190k-200k btu for current kiln (2 burners @ est. 90-100k btu each) is an informed estimate/best guess. The size of burner isnt directly proportional to int. volume of kiln as the area of external wall of the kiln (where heat is "leaks") that diminishes pro rata to the int. volume (hope that makes sense).

Thank you for responding. Many of the specialists in this sort of thing are located near stoke.

Can anyone confirm if its legal for a reg. Registered Gas Engineer to install yellow PE pipe externally (buried) on consumer side of meter? Cheers

 

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