Firebird Heatpac S20 boiler - how to change water pressure?

[Gingee]

Hi,

I really hope someone can give me some advice! I recently moved into a rented property and landlord won’t pay to get my boiler checked as they say it’s something I can do myself. I’ve read the manual but it doesn’t answer my questions (https://www.firebird.ie/images/stories/standard efficiency range manual.pdf)

So here goes...

It’s an ancient Firebird heatpac S70 oil fuelled boiler.

1. radiators need bleeding - how do I correct the water pressure? Manual says pressure needs to be at 3bar. But there doesn’t seem to be a pressure gauge and I can’t see the usual top up loop to add more water to the radiators.

2. The boiler needs to be reset at least twice a day as it keeps cutting out, when all the dials and thermostat say it should still be on. It needs resetting for a third time today but I’m sure it’s not good for it, so I’ve currently left it off for now and informed landlord again. Should I get a plumber to look at it? or do I just keep resetting it?

I’ve called the Firebird help line twice but they’re not getting back to me probably because it’s a stupid question - normally I’d call a plumber but the landlord told me to call the helpline and deal with it myself. Getting quite cold!!

Advice and second opinions hugely appreciated!

Kate

 

[SimonG]

When you say you are resetting it are you resetting the burner or the high limit stat?

 

[SJB060685]

A burner lockout is not rated to system pressure. Low system pressure will cut power to the burner and it won't even try to ignite to eventually go to lockout.
The filling loop could be at the boiler, or in the cylinder cupboard.
If you gave a burner lockout then you need an engineer and yes you are correct, don't keep pressing burner reset.

 

[Gingee]

When you say you are resetting it are you resetting the burner or the high limit stat?

I’m pressing a big red button that has a red light on it. Boiler man told me to press it if it needs resetting, but not to press it three times in a row. Hence not pressing it for a third time today.

 

[Gingee]

I’m pressing a big red button that has a red light on it. Boiler man told me to press it if it needs resetting, but not to press it three times in a row. Hence not pressing it for a third time today.

A big red button on the boiler.

 

[SJB060685]

Thats the burner reset button. You have a burner fault, as I said above

 

[Gingee]

A burner lockout is not rated to system pressure. Low system pressure will cut power to the burner and it won't even try to ignite to eventually go to lockout.
The filling loop could be at the boiler, or in the cylinder cupboard.
If you gave a burner lockout then you need an engineer and yes you are correct, don't keep pressing burner reset.

Thank you so much for explaining - I know I need a engineer, guess I just wanted reassurance that’s the right thing to do as landlord told me to sort it myself! I will get on the phone now I think I’ve fold what looks like a filling loop but it doesn’t have any valves anywhere near it. But doesn’t matter now anyway as will ask the engineer. Thank you again.

 

[SJB060685]

If you have header tanks in the loft its an open vented system, if not there will be a filling loop somewhere.
As you say the attending engineer can clarify for you.
At the moment you have a burner fault as well and your landlord has a duty of care and must get it sorted for you, especially in this cold weather.
I would bring on immersion heater so you at least have hot water.
Anyone touching a fuel burning appliance should be competent, so hopefully the engineer can help, if not we're here to help to a certain degree. Obviously we won't advise you to undertake anything yourself.

 

[SimonG]

Needs a visit, get your landlord on it.

The instruction not to reset it three times is more of a 3 times on the trot within a few minutes.

So ideally not good to keep resetting, if it's the difference between a bit of warmth and freezing then I would reset it.

What's in the tenancy agreement as far as servicing and repairs go. A lot are tenant to get annual service and landlord to repair.

Also do you have a carbon monoxide detector? Is the boiler internal?

 

[Gingee]

If you have header tanks in the loft its an open vented system, if not there will be a filling loop somewhere.
As you say the attending engineer can clarify for you.
At the moment you have a burner fault as well and your landlord has a duty of care and must get it sorted for you, especially in this cold weather.
I would bring on immersion heater so you at least have hot water.
Anyone touching a fuel burning appliance should be competent, so hopefully the engineer can help, if not we're here to help to a certain degree. Obviously we won't advise you to undertake anything yourself.

Thanks again, yes, i think I must have an open system but will get confirmation. I don’t think my landlord realises their responsibilities - I was going to highlight that it’s their duty to sort out the boiler but no matter how I say it it sounds quite arsey!

 

[SJB060685]

The instruction not to reset more than 3 times is to prevent any undue further damage as well as maintaining the life cycle of the good components. All parts on the burner have a theoretical max run time and frequently pressing the reset button is not helping preserve the parts. Thats how I've always seen it to be honest.
3 lockouts today, I have a couple suspicions

 

[SJB060685]

Thanks again, yes, i think I must have an open system but will get confirmation. I don’t think my landlord realises their responsibilities - I was going to highlight that it’s their duty to sort out the boiler but no matter how I say it it sounds quite arsey!

What does it say in your contractual agreement?
Does it state you're responsible or the landlord?
Quite frankly in this cold weather its not unreasonable for you to want heating. Politely but firmly insist he has it sorted.

 

[Gingee]

Needs a visit, get your landlord on it.

The instruction not to reset it three times is more of a 3 times on the trot within a few minutes.

So ideally not good to keep resetting, if it's the difference between a bit of warmth and freezing then I would reset it.

What's in the tenancy agreement as far as servicing and repairs go. A lot are tenant to get annual service and landlord to repair.

Also do you have a carbon monoxide detector? Is the boiler internal?

Hi Simon, thanks!!!!! It’s very very cold with no heating so will reset for now whilst I sort an engineer. It has been serviced already this summer, paid by landlord. I assumed landlord was to pay for the engineer but perhaps I’m wrong, so I might just pay now and argue my case later if I need too. Still have a hole in the roof and raining in the kitchen so not the best of landlords!!! Boiler is outside, but also have a carbon monoxide detector for our gas stove.thanks for the advice, which means we will at least be warm tonight! Till it needs resetting again at least.

 

[Gingee]

What does it say in your contractual agreement?
Does it state you're responsible or the landlord?
Quite frankly in this cold weather its not unreasonable for you to want heating. Politely but firmly insist he has it sorted.

I had better check my agreement as I perhaps wrongly assumed they were to pay.

 

[SJB060685]

I had better check my agreement as I perhaps wrongly assumed they were to pay.

Yes check the agreement and if the landlord is responsible then approach them.
Failing that as you said to Simon above just pay for an engineer to visit and argue it with the landlord later.
I appreciate you need heat but I personally would not advise frequently pressing the reset button for reasons I mentioned above, certainly if you're the one paying the maintenance bill.

 

[SimonG]

When I was learning the 3 times reset was put across as if it hadnt fired on the 3rd press then dont press again.

 

[SimonG]

Post up some pics if you can of the burner, boiler and oil tank.

 

[SJB060685]

I agree Simon and by doing so you help preserve as much as possible.
By constantly resetting the burner in the hope to keep heat on or to even start the burner you're putting every component into motion. Motor runs, bearings get weaker, caps get weaker, pump coupling gets weaker, pumps get weaker. Coils energise and start to get weaker etc etc etc. All this start stop adds to premature wear and tear of parts and if it was a fuel problem you'll quite happily burn a pump out in no time if kept running dry.
Three lockouts today is a clear problem and I wouldn't want to keep trying in the hope it springs to life at the expense of further possible damage.

 

[Gingee]

I agree Simon and by doing so you help preserve as much as possible.
By constantly resetting the burner in the hope to keep heat on or to even start the burner you're putting every component into motion. Motor runs, bearings get weaker, caps get weaker, pump coupling gets weaker, pumps get weaker. Coils energise and start to get weaker etc etc etc. All this start stop adds to premature wear and tear of parts and if it was a fuel problem you'll quite happily burn a pump out in no time if kept running dry.
Three lockouts today is a clear problem and I wouldn't want to keep trying in the hope it springs to life at the expense of further possible damage.

That’s interesting - the boiler man had to replace the pump a few months ago and asked if it had been run dry - I’ve recently moved in and still have half a tank so wasn’t sure if it had in the past. So maybe a blocked fuel line then. I’ll let you know what he says!

here’s a pic of the model number - it’s seriously old, I think before 2007 as it doesn’t appear to meet the 2007 minimum efficiency requirements.

 

[SJB060685]

Sedbuk band C, not as efficient as todays standards. A partial blockage is one of my suspicions yes but there is a number of possibilities.
Yes, please let us know the outcome.

 

[Gingee]

Sedbuk band C, not as efficient as todays standards. A partial blockage is one of my suspicions yes but there is a number of possibilities.
Yes, please let us know the outcome.

Will keep you posted, thanks for all the advice, and Simon also.

 

[SJB060685]

We're both Simon lol

 

[Gingee]

Hi Simons,

So we have heating! The fuel lines were clear, but needed a few worn out parts replacing - the coil, and the control box and another thingy too. The landlord was totally fine with it - it seems it was the letting agent being weird about us paying for it. The landlord simply said get it sorted ASAP and address the invoice to her - so all good on that front too

and the radiator query - yes we can bleed the radiators without needing to alter the pressure. So all good there too.

thanks again for all the advice!

kate