External filling loop of Vaillant Ecotec pro appears not working

[SteVen_200984]

Hello everybody! I rent a house with a Vaillant Ecotec pro combi boiler installed. I live in Brussels, not UK.

Last year I had low pressure up to the point the boiler stopped working and saw the F.22 message. I searched my way through the Internet and found that I had to refill the boiler using a filling loop. My boiler has an external filling loop, a "U" with two red vannes on both sides. I was able to successfully fill it up to 1.5 bar and never looked back.

This year (around a year or maybe more than the previous intervention) I accidentally saw it is blinking 0.5bar-0.4bar and even 0.3bar sometimes. It is working as it should (at the moment) but I thought I should better fill it up before it actually stops again and show the F.22 error code. I tried to do exactly the same as last year, open both red vannes cautiously, in order to refill pressure. Nothing seems to happen. No water is flowing. I have tried with the boiler turned off and with the boiler turned on -no luck. I looked around my building if there is another vanne somewhere in the basement but found nothing (and who would have turned off any vanne and for what reason -we are only two appartments and we know each other).

I read on the internet that this might mean a faulty pressure gauge, but both the analog and the digital pressure meter show the same (and it has been like that like forever). I don't think the water pressure in the main system is lower than 0.5bar and I can confirm water flows normally in the house (as every other day).

I found this other thread and the problem seems similar -these guys advised the other person to empty and refill the boiler.

I am supposed to run a routine check this autumn but I am really puzzled as to why something that has worked successfully in the past, now seems not responding.

I have classic red iron vannes so probably we do not have a case where you should take the vanne off and unscrew using another tool.

I would greatly appreciate any help you might offer, the idea is not to get stuck with a non-working boiler some morning when you really need to reach the office soon

 

[chris watkins]

We don't understand what you mean by "I have classic red iron vannes"

Can you post a photo of the filling loop?
& can you disconnect one end of the filling loop hose, if possible the end that connects to the heating system pipes? if so stick the open end into a bucket & slowly turn on the valve to see if water pressure on the mains is available?

Anything like these ?

 

[Riley]

Probably ceased gate valves or something

 

[SteVen_200984]

Thank you for your replies gentlemen. I will post a photo as soon as I get back home. I have the day off tomorrow so I will have plenty of time in the morning to work on this.

Dear Chris, the first vanne you post is exactly like the one of my vannes. You unscrew the top "screw" and the vanne may be removed. The other vanne is very similar to your first picture but not identical. The top "screw" of this vanne appears like it cannot get undone and that vanne, I cannot remove it. Maybe this is the solution to the puzzle. You will have pictures in around 5 hours from now.

Thank you very much.

 

[chris watkins]

vanne = valve

My first photo is of a 15mm lever ball valve (well that is what we all call them in the UK)

 

[Riley]

Yes good work Chris :smile: Google translate comes to my rescue again

 

[chris watkins]

Yes good work Chris :smile: Google translate comes to my rescue again

Oooh thats cleaver I never thought of Google'ing it. It was just a luck guess on my part.

isn't the tinonet great, I have just been looking up places to park & eat in Canada for my forthcoming trip. :hurray:

 

[rpm]

We don't understand what you mean by "I have classic red iron vannes"

Can you post a photo of the filling loop?
& can you disconnect one end of the filling loop hose, if possible the end that connects to the heating system pipes? if so stick the open end into a bucket & slowly turn on the valve to see if water pressure on the mains is available?

Tell me I wrong but if he disconnects the valve on the incoming side of the filling loop what`s to stop the water flooding the floor?

 

[Riley]

I would love to go to Canada I hear there are lots of work opportunities it's just tough getting in

 

[Riley]

I think he saying disconnect the hose as opposed to the valve

 

[rpm]

I think he saying disconnect the hose as opposed to the valve

As long as the OP understands that, guess it will be clearer to advise once the pictures are up.

 

[SteVen_200984]

Hello gentlemen and thank you for your replies.

So, I took a picture of the system and it is the following



I thought that the upper valve was the gateway to the main supply, then I disconnected the hose on the low end and turned the upper valve.. I was unlucky this was the boiler side and all the boiler water slid into the bucket. Boiler is now red light, pressure 0.1 bar and out of water. Some mud (a few, less than 1 square cm pieces) slid in the bucket.

Then I disconnected the hose on the upper side and turned the lower valve. Nothing is flowing. I took the valve out and tried with {I don't know the name of the tool, but it unscrews hexagon screws} this tool but still no water flowing.

I lost the valve in the process (it fell in the gap between the wall and the wood) but I can easily replace that. Here is a pic (my hand is the main supply valve, the valve is missing, no matter if I try to unscrew this nothing flows)



So, what should I try to do in order to unscrew this? Maybe I should unscrew several times and not only 90 degrees? The screw appears to unscrew indefinitely now that the red valve is not attached on it. Or maybe I have a problem with my mains supply? Every other tap in the house has water normally.

Now I don't have hot water and heating as well, tomorrow it's a public holiday, at least it's 23 degrees in Brussels today!

 

[SteVen_200984]

I looked inside the valve that is working, this is a ball-like valve (not like the old ones that you used to screw and screw indefinitely until they were closed) that turns 90 degrees and in turns, allows or blocks the water. The other valve, presumably the same ball-like type, I cannot of course look inside it but no matter how many times I turn the screw, it doesn't seem to allow water. We have very bad water in Brussels, calcium is over any acceptable limit and I frequently have to clean my taps and other running water affected parts with vinegar.

Probably this valve is blocked, after years of only one usage per 12-18 months and now it must be replaced. I could try to switch down the main supply and try to replace the valve, but I am afraid I might break another pipe (the house is not mine), also I lack the necessary tools and teflon tape.

Please for your ideas. Does the faulty valve scenario sound like something usual to you? Is it acceptable that a ball-like turn valve needs replacement every several years? Is it normal house ageing symptom?

 

[chris watkins]

I would recommend that you get someone in to help you who has tools & understanding.

but if you are determine to have a go the brass thing with DR & "Honeywell" on it is what we in the UK would call a Type CA Disconnector it is there after the isolation valve to protect the mains water supply from the dirty heating water. It is this that has likely broken & is not allowing water to pass, if this is the case you will need to get a replacement.
Why have you taken the red handle off of the lower valve ? is it not turning ? they are only 1/4 turn, if the handle is across the pipe the valve is off, if it is in-line the valve should be on.

If you can turn both valves off i.e. across the pipe, you could try to undo the silver nut on the lefthand side of the lower valve & the one on the other side of the Honeywell valve, then remove it. Place a bucket under lower valve & slowly turn on to see if there is water & the valve works.

If it does, temporary connect the hose directly to the lower valve it looks like the threads should fit.
Turn on the upper heating valve then slowly open the lower valve allowing water to fill heating as you have done before, no more than 1 -1.5 bar.
Make sure you turn off both valves & disconnect the hose until you get the Honeywell valve replaced.

 

[SteVen_200984]

Thank you for your reply Chris, you have been magnificent.

First, I have been in contact with the owner, he will come himself tomorrow, then we will call a plumber and he will pay the cost. So, it will be solved soon. For tonight, no boiler.

Your guess about the Type CA Disconnector being broken is probably correct. When I turn on the lower valve, water is not flowing, however, water is leaking from the bottom of the Type CA Disconnector. When I turn off the lower valve, this leaking stops. So, it must mean water arrives to the CA Disconnector, but doesn't go through.

I took the red handle off of the lower valve because, reading different posts on the Internet, there was this piece of advice, to remove the handle and try to turn the screw using another tool. In the process, the handle fell in the gap between the wall and the wood furniture, so I don't have access to it. I will have, among everything else, to buy another handle for the lower valve.

Regarding your advice to remove temporarily the CA Disconnector, which I presume you propose to me as an ad hoc solution to pressurise the boiler again, I do not have the tools to do it. The silver nut you mention cannot get undone that simply Once again, we will call in a plumber tomorrow and this shall be fixed by replacing the CA Disconnector.

I am grateful for your help, will post again to let you know that everything is sorted out.

 

[chris watkins]

Defiantly the best thing to do, is call a Plumber.

The owner can't say you haven't tried. Even if you did loose the valve handle for them. LOL

Best of luck
Chris

 

[SteVen_200984]

Just to let you know. The plumber came in today, he disconnected first the CA Disconnector, it was not blocked. Then he disconnected the valve, it was not blocked. It was the corner junction between the main supply and the valve that was blocked with mud and calcium. He cleaned it up and now it all works again.