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stevetheplumb

Hi, having trouble recovering money from a certain school who keep saying Ive gone over my "quote" except I never gave a quote but a rough estimate as the work needed was short notice and not entirely clear.
 
Hi Steve was there anything given by you in writing to the customer..... regards Turnpin:computer:
 
Hi Turpin, Yes email response to ask me for a breakdown which I provided
 
Did this email state anywhere that this was an estimate or a quote I appreciate you gave them a breakdown but did you find a problem with some of the work that you had not anticipated and carried on and charged any extra before informing them....regards Turnpin
 
Write to them in a similar format to above, recording the short notice that prevented them identifying the full extent of the works and your timely response to their needs.
They could argue it was a "LUMP SUM" quote inclusive of all necessary work, but unless those words appear in the documents or invitation to tender the argument will fail.
Be aware of " CONTRA PROFERENDUM" a legal nicety that resolves an ambiguity in favour of the party who had lest to do in the creation of the ambiguity.
 
The estimate was stated as an estimate, with only provisional sums as I could not see everything before starting. as the work went on plans were changed several times plus chippies nailing pipes in the process
 
In essence, I converted two systems, one was pressurised the other open vent. fitted two gloworm open vent 24kw boilers a 280 litre unvented cylinder fitted with a LLH 4 pumps 3 zone valves etc
 
An estimate is just that...an estimate you cannot be liable to do extra works without extra payments and certainly not for fixing nailed pipes by other trades the school needs to claim off the other trades public liability insurance to cover what you charged to fix the nailed pipes at least and also any alterations deemed by the school should have been covered with a variation works order.....regards Turnpin
 
trouble is in reality I may be in the right, getting a payment is another thing :(
 
going to get burnt as a sole trader, best get used to sucking it up :(
 
got all my gas and oil tickets for renewal early next year, guess I'm off to asda for a job
 
ÂŁ6200 all in materials cost 5300
Sounds very reasonable and one I would pursue, if necessary, through the court. To defend your claim they would have to produce experts to say your claim was excessive and, on the figures given, this is not the case. Damage to pipework, by others, is their responsibility under vicarious liability.
 
a sprat to catch a mackerel pricing, more fool me. am chasing this account, good plumber does not make a good businessman
 
am sure that half the problem with this industry is the good and contentious lose out to the hard and don't give an eff
 
does not sound like a quick job,plenty of time to get prices sorted and agreed as you went along...if you only made ÂŁ900...bit of a shock...give them the true break down..what was your original estimate anyway...
 
The only way they will appreciate your work is when they employ someone else. Be assertive without being aggressive pursue your claim and they will come back to you for future work when they find the cost of others.
 
Hope you got your commercial ticket (for gas)
 
You gotta do this for yourself, fight for every penny, if you get this money the next battle will be easier. Try mediation or small claims.
Good luck!
 
Send them another invoice for the outstanding balance and make sure you put the small print along the bottom stating " all materials remain the property of ( your trading name) until paid in full" add the wording of 14 day notice in bold along the top. If they dont pay go and rip it out and sell it off.
 
Send them another invoice for the outstanding balance and make sure you put the small print along the bottom stating " all materials remain the property of ( your trading name) until paid in full" add the wording of 14 day notice in bold along the top. If they dont pay go and rip it out and sell it off.

Unfortunately that statement means very little. Also if you were to enter and remove materials you would probably find yourself in court for criminal damage. Lunacy but true. Unfortunately in this country the tradesman has very little legal protection from muppets who think they can get away without paying or waiting an eternity to pay.
 
In five years of trading I have only lost ÂŁ260 due to non payment, most traders I know lose more than that each year. There is a massive difference between can't pay and wont pay, if they cant pay I will help them, if they won't pay I will keep going until every penny is recovered.
 
In five years of trading I have only lost ÂŁ260 due to non payment, most traders I know lose more than that each year. There is a massive difference between can't pay and wont pay, if they cant pay I will help them, if they won't pay I will keep going until every penny is recovered.

The end of your statement doesn't correlate with the start.
 
had 2 not pay this year, not worth the hassle chasing up. both labour only under a hundred, karma will catch up with them :)
 
had 2 not pay this year, not worth the hassle chasing up. both labour only under a hundred, karma will catch up with them :)

Perhaps its a different perspective, but we would chase it, even if under a ÂŁhundred. A reputation for being robust and thorough in credit control never hurt any business.
 
There's a difference between trying to get your rightfully earned money and just saying 'oh well'. Just sending a standard non pay letter and email threatening court action takes 5 mins. Dont worry about losing face you dont want to deal with them people in future anyways so go as hard as you like..
 
Perhaps its a different perspective, but we would chase it, even if under a ÂŁhundred. A reputation for being robust and thorough in credit control never hurt any business.

100% agree. This is my POV as a recently retired tradesman who had many customers try to wriggle out of paying over 25 years. Set your stall out from day one with regard to terms of business. There is plenty of help out there for the self employed regarding debt recovery and the correct processes. Trading standards is a good place to start, offering templates etc. So you must must must get your paperwork in order. This means following the correct procedure and wording for estimates, contracts, additional work to estimate, payment profile, etc. In my experience if a sole trader is not prepared to do this then don't bother starting up in business. The cold hard fact is there are many individuals who just don't want to pay the full price. Top tips: with every estimate enclose your Terms and Condition in which it should state clearly your stage payment schedule, advanced payment for materials, penalties for cancellation, definition of an estimate, state clearly that acceptance of the estimate either verbally or in writing is a contract. If a customer calls you and asks for a "quote" ask them if they want a fixed price and explain the difference between and estimate which is an educated guess and a quote which is a guaranteed fixed price and subject to re negotiation for extras! Don't work for nothing! Your liabilities to Mr Smart Arse you did a cheap job for are the same as a proper earner so think carefully. Make sure you are insured, read the small print on the policy. I found that my insurers of 10 years had stuck a new clause into my policy preventing me from working on buildings higher thin 15 meters. When I questioned it thinking they must have thought I had become a roofer, I was told it included internal works due to the risk of extensive damage to floors below. To increase to all buildings would have doubled the premium with that company of bandits. Lastly, pick and choose your customers, many on here will know what I mean without me going into details. Sufficient to say that certain ethnic groups of the population have a very different attitude to paying their way in life. So you become very aware of who to not to even do a price for.
My SOP for work with over ÂŁ250 materials was to get money for materials and waste removal either before starting or on the day work started. No money and I would walk. Then agree stage payments on completion of certain work, eg bathroom ripped out, fist fix, tile installed then balance on completion. My aim was to leave no more than 10% on the job on the last day. Get the cust to sign a satisfaction note.

In the last year of business we got a card machine so we could eliminate one more excuse for not paying on the day.

Get all of the above right and it works. With your current outstanding debt I would call the school secretary on the phone and make an appointment to visit in person to discuss the consequences of not paying for work and materials. Have that face to face and make it clear that you will pursue the debt legally. Go to
https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/going-to-court and download the forms, fill them out and take them with you to show you mean business.
Good luck
 
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Brilliant post Radioman anyone thinking about starting out in their own should heed those words
 
I see this week George Osborne wants all self employed people to do a tax return quarterly every year,talk about more red tape nonsense and accountants fees,what say you all ,???
 
I see this week George Osborne wants all self employed people to do a tax return quarterly every year,talk about more red tape nonsense and accountants fees,what say you all ,???

I read that as well. As it was in the daily mail I sort of took it with a pinch of salt. I think the point of it is to get the turnover figures to HMRC so they can asses if VAT thresholds are exceeded quarterly. In fact I suppose if you are vat registered already then it's not much more work?

This is to be tied in to the proposal in the 2015 budget speech to introduce a compulsory government online bank account for self employed. With on line tax returns helping to fund the 5% cut in staff levels at HMRC.

As a ltd co we paid around ÂŁ1500 pa for accountancy, later as SE I paid about ÂŁ350 pa for accountancy. Quadrupling those figures would have put a big strain on finances during the worst of the recession. I know of no other country in the world where you put profit and loss tax returns in 4 times a year. I stand to be educated!

If it becomes a reality it will just drive more se trades into cash in hand. I bet Mr Eastern European and Mr Dispossessed will be first in line to submit their figures.
 
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We in Oz have to provide BAS ( Business Activity Statements ) quarterly.

Basically pay tax on your income 4 times a year.
Doesn't affect employees - just businesses.

It's not necessarily a bad thing.
It makes you keep up to date with your bookwork, and also makes you more vigilant about slow payers.
 
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Medium and large companies in the UK already have to estimate their current year tax liability and pay quarterly on account.

The chancellor doesn't want to wait until the company has a year end, then wait 8 months to do the accounts, and then pay the tax - in some cases 20 months after the profit generating transaction has occurred.

Assuming that you are regularly putting money by for the tax liability, it just means that the chancellor gets the interest on this instead of you. At present, its surprisingly little paperwork (but quite a lot of guesswork). I expect that the new online system will be complete carp to start with. They usually are.
 
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