Electrical qualifications

[OffshoreGas]

Most electrical work required for plumbing/heating does not seem to be notifiable under building regulations.

What electrical qualifications do most have for basic electrical work such as installing/fault finding heating controls or adding a fused spur for a boiler.

 

[Ben-gee]

Common sense, and that’s enough.

 

[Gasmk1]

Electrical training at British Gas and also with level 3 NVQ which we took when we started Gasforce

 

[OffshoreGas]

Common sense, and that’s enough.

Surely you have to hold some formal qualification? A company wouldn’t have a leg to stand on if you were injured and they hadn’t done any sort of competency. Same for self employed for insurance etc if your work leads to damage to someone’s home.
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Electrical training at British Gas and also with level 3 NVQ which we took when we started Gasforce

Was the BG electrical training just an internal thing?

 

[Gasmk1]

Yes we were the first apprentices to have it included the rest of BG had to have it extra as an assimilation course. Basically made all gas fitters into technicians. Although then technicians did get extra training. As they were also able to stand in as supervisors

 

[OffshoreGas]

Yes we were the first apprentices to have it included the rest of BG had to have it extra as an assimilation course. Basically made all gas fitters into technicians. Although then technicians did get extra training. As they were also able to stand in as supervisors

I’ve seen most of the electrical trade bodies have an associated trades scheme. Seems like it could be the answer. Also means you can do limited trade based stuff like fit fused spurs without needing to sub in a spark.

 

[Murdoch]

Common sense, and that’s enough.

Not convinced that you could use that as a defence in the courts.

Good working knowledge of BS 7671 18th edition plus experience, and have calibrated test kit, and the ability to issue certificates if you are making changes to the fixed wiring of the premises.

Being a spark, could I start installing boilers as I have good common sense?

 

[king of pipes]

Yes you could actually if you have enough money you can train to do it , takes a good few months but I know a postie who did it , after the basic training they organised a 3 month period with a company so he could shadow a GSI and get more hands on experience costs a packet though.
Most gas training centres offer courses on basic electrics, controls wiring and fault finding complete that then your good to go. Kop

 

[OffshoreGas]

Not convinced that you could use that as a defence in the courts.

Good working knowledge of BS 7671 18th edition plus experience, and have calibrated test kit, and the ability to issue certificates if you are making changes to the fixed wiring of the premises.

Being a spark, could I start installing boilers as I have good common sense?

I only do industrial ICE work so not really familiar with electrical rules for domestic and comercial electrical work. Do you issue a test certificate for every modification/activity even where work isnt notifiable?
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Yes you could actually if you have enough money you can train to do it , takes a good few months but I know a postie who did it , after the basic training they organised a 3 month period with a company so he could shadow a GSI and get more hands on experience costs a packet though.
Most gas training centres offer courses on basic electrics, controls wiring and fault finding complete that then your good to go. Kop

I'm already electrically competent and I'm not looking to get into domestic electrical work but am curios what hoops need to be jumped through from a liability perspective. I'd be fairly disappointed if you were expected to sit a full 18th edition/inspection and testing etc to be able to connect a hob or boiler to a fused spur.

 

[Murdoch]

I only do industrial ICE work so not really familiar with electrical rules for domestic and comercial electrical work. Do you issue a test certificate for every modification/activity even where work isn't notifiable?

Yes .................... that's the rules!

 

[OffshoreGas]

Yes .. that's the rules!

I cant find anything to say Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate would be required for a like for like swap which is essence what 90% of plumbing and heating work involves.

 

[Sharp Point]

Yes .. that's the rules!

So you issue a certificate when swapping a faulty two way lighting switch?

 

[Stu-B]

Yes .. that's the rules!

No it’s not, it depends on the work done, some minor works are not notifiable.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Yes .. that's the rules!

I cant even find anything to say it's actually illegal for a person with zero training to complete electrical work. All the liability seems to be with the home owner.

 

[Murdoch]

No it’s not, it depends on the work done, some minor works are not notifiable.

Not sure you understood my comment.

Notification under part p is completely seperate to issuing an electrical certificate

And no I don’t issue a minor works for a like for like swap unless a landlord asks for it.

Our CPS’s think we should issue certs for everything, even swapping a broken light switch , but they don’t live in the real world ....
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I cant even find anything to say it's actually illegal for a person with zero training to complete electrical work. All the liability seems to be with the home owner.

It’s not illegal , it’s that simple, but fixing a boiler or replacing one isn’t either

 

[OffshoreGas]

Not sure you understood my comment.

Notification under part p is completely seperate to issuing an electrical certificate

And no I don’t issue a minor works for a like for like swap unless a landlord asks for it.

Our CPS’s think we should issue certs for everything, even swapping a broken light switch , but they don’t live in the real world ..
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It’s not illegal , it’s that simple, but fixing a boiler or replacing one isn’t either

It actually is illigal to work on a gas appliance if your not competent.

 

[Sharp Point]

Nothing is illegal until something goes wrong.
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It actually is illigal to work on a gas appliance if your not competent.

And competent in the eyes of the law is qualified.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Nothing is illegal until something goes wrong.
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And competent in the eyes of the law is qualified.

My understating is technically competent extends beyond qualified in law. Being deemed competent normally involves having achieved some form of qualification but also being able to demonstrate practical experience and relevant understanding.

Strangely there isn't a directly equivelent pice of legislation to Gas Safety Installation & Use Regulations for domestic electrical work.

Although were both essentially saying the same thing.

 

[king of pipes]

Get qualified then you've not got to be a fully qualified sparky but you will need the qualifications to install and test heating controls, fault finding, understand basic electrics and know how to use a multi meter.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Get qualified then you've not got to be a fully qualified sparky but you will need the qualifications to install and test heating controls, fault finding, understand basic electrics and know how to use a multi meter.

That what I'm looking for a course, it's not for me it's for the guy(s) I want to employ.

I want something formal to cover safe isolation and very basic electical work but most seem to want to go off the deep end.

 

[king of pipes]

That what I'm looking for a course, it's not for me it's for the guy(s) I want to employ.

I want something formal to cover safe isolation and very basic electical work but most seem to want to go off the deep end.

Contact your local gas training centre they can give you the information you require and maybe tailor a course for your employees.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Surely you have to hold some formal qualification? A company wouldn’t have a leg to stand on if you were injured and they hadn’t done any sort of competency. Same for self employed for insurance etc if your work leads to damage to someone’s home.
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Was the BG electrical training just an internal thing?

This makes no sense mate. If you hold and ACS or ACOPs or equivalent qualification,m then you are qualified enough to wire in a while heating system apart from the spur. To wire in a spur all you need is to be part P.
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My understating is technically competent extends beyond qualified in law. Being deemed competent normally involves having achieved some form of qualification but also being able to demonstrate practical experience and relevant understanding.

Strangely there isn't a directly equivelent pice of legislation to Gas Safety Installation & Use Regulations for domestic electrical work.

Although were both essentially saying the same thing.

Passing your ACS or equivalent is being competent.

 

[OffshoreGas]

This makes no sense mate. If you hold and ACS or ACOPs or equivalent qualification,m then you are qualified enough to wire in a while heating system apart from the spur. To wire in a spur all you need is to be part P.

That's great if true, I've looked at the syllabus and it looked fairly light on electrical content.

What about things like wiring up thermostats of or controls? Changing electric showers? Connecting towel rails to a spur? Work in a zoned area of a bathroom seems to be notifiable possibly under minor works if its a like for like.

I'm happy to use a competent electrical person where ones needed but seems like there is a lot of grey areas with this cross over.

I'm happy to actually teach the guys safe isolation/working practices but would like some sort of formal qualification from a liability point of view.

 

[Burger]

That's great if true, I've looked at the syllabus and it looked fairly light on electrical content.

What about things like wiring up thermostats of or controls? Changing electric showers? Connecting towel rails to a spur? Work in a zoned area of a bathroom seems to be notifiable possibly under minor works if its a like for like.

I'm happy to use a competent electrical person where ones needed but seems like there is a lot of grey areas with this cross over.

I'm happy to actually teach the guys safe isolation/working practices but would like some sort of formal qualification from a liability point of view.

I did an essential electrics course (covers safe isolation), very good and informative, I don’t think citb run it anymore, but I think a lot of places offer one similar.

 

[Sharp Point]

If I remember correctly, ANYONE can connect to a circuit( fused spur) or replace a faulty electrical component.... it’s a bit hazy nowadays, been a while since I did my part P.

 

[OffshoreGas]

If I remember correctly, ANYONE can connect to a circuit( fused spur) or replace a faulty electrical component.. it’s a bit hazy nowadays, been a while since I did my part P.

Yeah but it gets sticky from a liability standpoint if a membeor of the public or an employee is injured due to electrical work completed by a company I own. Beyond that I'd like the guys working for me to be safe. Essential electrics sounds ideal but dont know what legal standing it would have.

 

[Burger]

Try this: NICEIC Safe Isolation Workshop for Non-Electricians
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Yeah but it gets sticky from a liability standpoint if a membeor of the public or an employee is injured due to electrical work completed by a company I own. Beyond that I'd like the guys working for me to be safe. Essential electrics sounds ideal but dont know what legal standing it would have.

Afaik and remember, the wiring regulations aren’t enforceable, but if you’re working towards them you’re deemed to be competent? Ask your training provider about whether it’ll allow your engineers to be working in accordance with the wiring regs.

 

[king of pipes]

That's great if true, I've looked at the syllabus and it looked fairly light on electrical content.

What about things like wiring up thermostats of or controls? Changing electric showers? Connecting towel rails to a spur? Work in a zoned area of a bathroom seems to be notifiable possibly under minor works if its a like for like.

I'm happy to use a competent electrical person where ones needed but seems like there is a lot of grey areas with this cross over.

I'm happy to actually teach the guys safe isolation/working practices but would like some sort of formal qualification from a liability point of view.

Quite right get em qualified or your whole world will be in ruins if something goes wrong, you I'll find yourself being prosecuted and quite possibly sued .

 

[Sharp Point]

Yeah but it gets sticky from a liability standpoint if a membeor of the public or an employee is injured due to electrical work completed by a company I own. Beyond that I'd like the guys working for me to be safe. Essential electrics sounds ideal but dont know what legal standing it would have.

Any of these courses really don’t mean sh@t.... to a court of law. They’re a days training, the only way to truly cover yourself would be to have a operative who’s a trained gas engineer and electrician, then you’d have no problem. But they’d still make mistakes... it’s being human

 

[Burger]

Are you wanting them to be adding to circuits? Don’t forget vast majority of work is working from fused connection unit or wiring centre, which as long as they can safely isolate, don’t see an issue.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Any of these courses really don’t mean sh@t.. to a court of law. They’re a days training, the only way to truly cover yourself would be to have a operative who’s a trained gas engineer and electrician, then you’d have no problem. But they’d still make mistakes... it’s being human

You have a legal duty as an employer to ensure your employees are competent to undertake work. I'd like to think there was a simple route to show a person was competent to use a multi meter or isolate a fused spur without having to be a fully qualified spark. British gas and the like surely don't do this.

Are you wanting them to be adding to circuits? Don’t forget vast majority of work is working from fused connection unit or wiring centre, which as long as they can safely isolate, don’t see an issue.

I'd happily pay for any notifiable work like adding a FCU, I just need a scheme to show they are compeent to work on heating/pluming specific electrical systems.

Would be great if ACS etc covers this as Harvest Fields suggests.

 

[Harvest Fields]

You have a legal duty as an employer to ensure your employees are competent to undertake work. I'd like to think there was a simple route to show a person was competent to use a multi meter or isolate a fused spur without having to be a fully qualified spark. British gas and the like surely don't do this.



I'd happily pay for any notifiable work like adding a FCU, I just need a scheme to show they are compeent to work on heating/pluming specific electrical systems.

Would be great if ACS etc covers this as Harvest Fields suggests.

Unfortunately ACS means all holders of the cert can go as far back as the spur with wiring associated the boilers wiring. Not ideal but just how it is.

 

[Millsy 82]

Bpec do an electric course for heating engineers thing I find funny is as far as I know electricians have to go back everytime the regs change ie from 17th to 18th edition yet for us its every 5 years!!!!!

As a rule if I have to go into the ring main etc then sparky gets involved if I gave a socket/ fuse spur then I will connect onto it. My insurance covers it as well.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Unfortunately ACS means all holders of the cert can go as far back as the spur with wiring associated the boilers wiring. Not ideal but just how it is.

So legally youd not be covered for say fitting an electric shower or connecting a heating element on a towel rail in zone in a bathroom?

 

[Harvest Fields]

So legally youd not be covered for say fitting an electric shower or connecting a heating element on a towel rail in zone in a bathroom?

Electric shower yes. As long as the outputs where the same. Electric towel rail, no as far as I understand.