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Discuss Dual fuel towel rail in the Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice area at PlumbersForums.net

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Hi guys, I would like to tap into your knowledge of dual fuel towel rails.

We already have an electric element in our en-suite towel rail/radiator, which was added about 10 years ago and is connected to a timer. In Summer I close off both valves and turn on the timer so we get toasty towels in the morning and evening, even when the CH is not on. It works well, however, while looking for a similar setup for our bathroom refurbishment, I came across information that states only the flow (TRV in our case) should be turned off. I assume this is to allow the expanding water to escape into the return valve/pipe. I always closed off both valves as I assumed the water in the supply/return pipes would be heated by the element, plus if the CH was to on it would cycle the electrically heated water in the rail, which defeats the point of using an element to heat it. Given that I've spent 10 years turning off both valves, without issue, have I just been lucky no damage has been done?

Our new bathroom will have wet UFH as the main means of heating and the small towel rail will be dual fuel, with a timer for the element. I would like to have a designer type radiator, something like this:

1582206643810.png


A T connection would be required on one of the inlets, which unfortunately will make it look a little more untidy, certainly not as neat as the matching coloured valves shown in the photo above. I assume an element can be installed in a radiator like this? I can't think of any reason why not. I also like the idea of these "central" radiator valves, however, I guess these can't be used with an electric element as they prevent the element from being installed:

1582207402199.png



I was also planning to have a TRV installed on the flow side of the towel rail as when the bathroom is warm enough, there's probably no need to warm up the towel rail. Plus, in Summer, the TRV valve would be closed anyway, so wouldn't interfere with the element's ability to warm up the rail.

I would appreciate any comments and advice on my thoughts for installing/using dual fuel towel rails.
 
Close one valve only.
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If the thermostat was defective, very possible just look at old immersion heaters that poured boiling water through ceilings, both valves closed it's a potential bomb.

Just because it's been fine for 10 years means nothing.
 
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You've probably got away with closing both valves because there was trapped air in the top of the towel rad (very common) and the thermostat never failed, as Simon mentioned above. The trapped air would have compressed when heating element was running and prevented the radiator going over pressure causing a leak. If the stat failed and the water boiled the energy going into the system would cause the radiator to fail and potentially quite violently.

You were just lucky.
 
I have always filled electric towel radiators with r100 solar fluid or similar so that rules out hooking in to the ch system. Centralheatking
 
Lol, BOMB!! that’s a tad extreme don’t you think? There’s a big difference between 150litres of hot water cylinder over boiling because a 3kw immersion heater got stuck on and a bathroom towel rail with a few pints in it and a 300w element 😂
 
Lol, BOMB!! that’s a tad extreme don’t you think? There’s a big difference between 150litres of hot water cylinder over boiling because a 3kw immersion heater got stuck on and a bathroom towel rail with a few pints in it and a 300w element 😂
Well yes the elements are around 300w screwed in the bottom and that’s what the instructions from the manufacturers state. I have one in each bathroom in our holiday lets so that’s 6 units all about 5 years or older. All are on timers and booster overrides as well as the immersion heaters as those lets are lecky only. I also got the R100 x 25 litre drum foc as I traded with Sentinel at the time, it’s quite nice
tastes of pear drops centralheatking
 
You've probably got away with closing both valves because there was trapped air in the top of the towel rad (very common) and the thermostat never failed, as Simon mentioned above. The trapped air would have compressed when heating element was running and prevented the radiator going over pressure causing a leak. If the stat failed and the water boiled the energy going into the system would cause the radiator to fail and potentially quite violently.

You were just lucky.
Unfortunately/fortunately, depending on how you look at it, there is definitely no trapped air in the towel rail as I regularly check the radiators throughout the house, especially in Winter.

When using the element during the Summer, it tends to be only on for a couple of hour in the morning and evening and the towel rail only gets "warm", never "hot" and certainly not "boiling", so I guess I've been lucky that limited usage has prevented it from heating up too much.

I will definitely leave the return valve open from now on.

As I never physically turn off the CH and because the Vaillant boiler uses weather compensation, even in Summer the CH can be on at a very low setting, where the radiators are barely warm. I assume that even thought the circulating pump might be on, the water in the towel rail being warmed up by the element, will stay in the rail?
 

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