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Domestic Gas in commercial properties

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Hi everyone,

After a bit of advice in the fact I’ve recently passed my domestic gas qualification however all the work I will carry out will be in commercial dwellings, I understand that I can only work on systems within 0.035m3 of gas. But do this apply from meter or closest valve to the boiler? + also how would I work out the volume of gas in system before carrying out work; thanks for any help
 
Depends on the task but it’s the volume of gas in the pipework your working on

As for how to work out the volume it’s the size of pipe find the volume 1m holds in your gas book then times by the amount of pipework in your section or divide by the volume this will give you a meters answer etc

Sounds like you need to be put through your com qualification if all your work is in com settings
 
You will be covered for IGE/UP/1B I presume? See below:

This standard covers tightness testing and direct purging of pipework containing either LPG/Air, natural gas or LPG and applies to any section of pipework, including meters, having the following:

  • MOP at the outlet of the emergency control valve not exceeding 2 bar for NG and LPG/Air and
  • A nominal bore of not greater than 35 mm and
  • A maximum badged capacity through the primary meter of not exceeding 16 m3 h-1 and
  • A maximum installation volume supplying an individual dwelling or non domestic premises of 0.035 m3 and
  • LPG/Air Installations – OP at the outlet of the primary meter and any point in the section to be tested not exceeding 21 mbar or
  • NG Installations – OP at the outlet of the primary meter and any point in the section to be tested not exceeding 21 mbar or
  • LPG Installations – OP at the outlet of the final stage regulator and any point in the section to be tested not exceeding 37 mbar.
So long as the installation meets the above, you're OK. Note: it mentions primary meter size and the installation volume does include that meter.

If you are unsure, ring IGEM technical and they will explain, they are very helpful.

There are misunderstandings on this, if anything were to go wrong, the buck stops with you.

My advice is to make sure you know exactly what you are qualified to work on as well as making sure you are insured to work in the premises you are working in.
 
You will be covered for IGE/UP/1B I presume? See below:

This standard covers tightness testing and direct purging of pipework containing either LPG/Air, natural gas or LPG and applies to any section of pipework, including meters, having the following:

  • MOP at the outlet of the emergency control valve not exceeding 2 bar for NG and LPG/Air and
  • A nominal bore of not greater than 35 mm and
  • A maximum badged capacity through the primary meter of not exceeding 16 m3 h-1 and
  • A maximum installation volume supplying an individual dwelling or non domestic premises of 0.035 m3 and
  • LPG/Air Installations – OP at the outlet of the primary meter and any point in the section to be tested not exceeding 21 mbar or
  • NG Installations – OP at the outlet of the primary meter and any point in the section to be tested not exceeding 21 mbar or
  • LPG Installations – OP at the outlet of the final stage regulator and any point in the section to be tested not exceeding 37 mbar.
So long as the installation meets the above, you're OK. Note: it mentions primary meter size and the installation volume does include that meter.

If you are unsure, ring IGEM technical and they will explain, they are very helpful.

There are misunderstandings on this, if anything were to go wrong, the buck stops with you.

My advice is to make sure you know exactly what you are qualified to work on as well as making sure you are insured to work in the premises you are working in.
I appreciate this nice one
 
If anyone following, just phoned Gas Safe and they have clarified if I’m only servicing appliance from EVC or AECV and following all which is stated above from IGEM then it is ok and covered. But ensure if tightness testing that is made clear to client that that is only on section from valve
 
If anyone following, just phoned Gas Safe and they have clarified if I’m only servicing appliance from EVC or AECV and following all which is stated above from IGEM then it is ok and covered. But ensure if tightness testing that is made clear to client that that is only on section from valve


If you are following all that is stated above and working below that, then you are working on a domestic sized installation.

If you are working on an installation which is above the criteria of the above, then the installation is commercial and the appliance is a domestic appliance connected to a commercial installation.

If gas safe have said to you, that after an isolation valve on a commercial installation, it is acceptable for a domestic engineer to be working on a domestic sized appliance, I would disagree with them.

This is my personal interpretation of the regulations and standards so others will no doubt disagree with me.

Out of curiosity, what would you do if said valve was letting by?
 
If you are following all that is stated above and working below that, then you are working on a domestic sized installation.

If you are working on an installation which is above the criteria of the above, then the installation is commercial and the appliance is a domestic appliance connected to a commercial installation.

If gas safe have said to you, that after an isolation valve on a commercial installation, it is acceptable for a domestic engineer to be working on a domestic sized appliance, I would disagree with them.

This is my personal interpretation of the regulations and standards so others will no doubt disagree with me.

Out of curiosity, what would you do if said valve was letting by?
I have a domestic boiler in a commercial setting. Do I need commercial qualifications to work on this?

When considering which qualifications you need to work on an appliance, you must first know how the manufacturer categorises the appliance. As a rule, appliances under 70kW are deemed domestic: however, there are some exceptions and you should check with the manufacturer. Any appliance over 70kW will always be a commercial appliance and you will need non-domestic qualifications to work on it.

Where a domestic appliance is fitted in a commercial building, it is the appliance classification that matters. For instance, if there is a stand-alone domestic boiler fitted in a factory, then you need CENWAT to work on that appliance.

However, where multiple domestic appliances with an aggregate of over 70kW are fitted in series in the same room – for example two 40kW boilers fitted together, then the room becomes a plant room. As such, you need commercial knowledge and qualifications as well as the domestic boiler qualification.

You should also know the limitations of the pipework on which you can work. If you have domestic qualifications, you can work on up to a U16 meter, 35mm copper or 1¼” steel, and an installation volume of 0.035m3. Anything over this requires non-domestic qualifications.


There is no equipotential bonding on the meter but the electrician says it’s fine.

I’m replacing a boiler and the old chimney goes over a boundary. The neighbour has given their permission to fit the new boiler in the same place. Can I do this?


No. When you install any gas appliance, it must be installed in accordance with all relevant British standards, regulations, and the manufacturer’s instructions. BS 5440 Part 1 and Building Regulations Approved Document J state that any chimney must terminate at least 600mm from a facing boundary, and 300mm if running parallel to the boundary. Some manufacturers may allow these distances to be reduced if using plume management kits. However, no chimneys should terminate over the property boundary.

Even if the neighbour gives their permission to terminate the chimney on to their property, this is not permitted because, in the event of the property changing hands, the new owner may object. In this instance, it should be re-routed, and the boiler may need to be re-sited.

What are the requirements for soldering gas installation pipework in a caravan? Can I use any solder?

When installing pipework in a caravan, static mobile home or motor home, it is not permitted to use soft soldered fittings. Only mechanical fittings or hard soldered (brazed) fittings should be used.

There some confusion about the qualifications required to work on a static mobile home. The qualification required is leisure accommodation vehicles (LAV), not residential park homes. Both qualifications show as ‘caravans’ on the back of your Gas Safe ID card. If you are unsure whether you are qualified to work on an installation, you should always check with Technical Team before carrying out any gas work. You can find more information about working on LAVs, RPHs and holiday accommodation in Technical Bulletin 063.

Working in rental properties



I’m doing a landlord’s gas safety record (LGSR) check and have a hob in a room with no window, ie, an internal room. Should I fail the LGSR?

When carrying out an LGSR, and there is a cooker or hob fitted in an internal kitchen, this does not necessarily mean that the appliance is unsafe.

All cooking appliances should be fitted in a room with a window or door direct to outside. This is for purge ventilation not combustion ventilation. If there is no window or door to outside, then the kitchen becomes an internal kitchen, and the guidance given in Technical Bulletin 005 should be followed.

TB 005 states that alternative types of purge ventilation should be installed, such as extract fans that vent outside or trickle vents into a conservatory. The requirements vary in the different UK nations and you can find these in the Technical Bulletin.

However, if there is no purge ventilation in the kitchen at all, this is a Building Regulations issue, not a gas safety one. As long as the kitchen is bigger than 10m2 the installation would usually be deemed Not to Current Standards (NCS).

What is the new rule about due dates on landlords’ gas safety record checks?

When the GSIUR was updated in 2018, Regulation 36a was added. This states that an LGSR check may be carried out up to two months before the renewal date, and the renewal will remain the same. For instance, if the LGSR is due on 1/10/2021, it can be carried out any time from 1/8/2021, and the renewal date for next year will be 1/10/2022. If the check is carried out early, the landlord must be able to produce the previous two years’ records.

None of this affects the way you carry out the safety check in any way: the rule is designed to minimise the risk of LGSRs running out and the tenant being left without a valid record.
You must not post-date the record. You may added the extended renewal date on the record if you wish, though this is not a requirement.

You can find more information on this ruling in Technical Bulletin 055, as well as at www.hse.gov.uk/gas/landlords



Does a gas cooker only need a visual inspection on the LGSR?

This depends who owns the cooker. If it’s the tenant’s own appliance, then it is not the responsibility of the landlord, and so requires only a visual inspection.

If it is owned by the landlord, then it must be fully checked, with all other appliances, in accordance with Regulation 36 of the Gas Safety (Installation & Use) Regulations 1998 (GSIUR). Further guidance on landlords’ responsibilities can be found in Technical Bulletin 055, or at www.hse.gov.uk/gas/landlords



More information

This article provides at-a-glance information on some of the questions asked by gas engineers. You can find more in-depth information on some of these topics in the Technical Bulletins published by Gas Safe Register. You can read and download all Gas Safe Register Technical Bulletins by logging into your online account at: www.gassaferegister.co.uk/sign-in

  • Technical Bulletin 129: Boiler inlet gas pressure measurement
  • Technical Bulletin 005: Gas cookers in internal kitchens
  • Technical Bulletin 055: Duties of landlords
  • Technical Bulletin 063: Carrying out gas work on leisure accommodation vehicles, residential park homes and holiday
    accommodation
  • BS 5440-1: Flueing and ventilation for gas appliances of rate input not exceeding 70kW net (1st, 2nd and 3rd family gases) – Specification for installation of gas appliances to chimneys and for maintenance of chimneys.


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If you are following all that is stated above and working below that, then you are working on a domestic sized installation.

If you are working on an installation which is above the criteria of the above, then the installation is commercial and the appliance is a domestic appliance connected to a commercial installation.

If gas safe have said to you, that after an isolation valve on a commercial installation, it is acceptable for a domestic engineer to be working on a domestic sized appliance, I would disagree with them.

This is my personal interpretation of the regulations and standards so others will no doubt disagree with me.

Out of curiosity, what would you do if said valve was letting by?
I’m with you on this

This was in gas installer back in the day

I have a domestic boiler in a commercial setting. Do I need commercial qualifications to work on this?

When considering which qualifications you need to work on an appliance, you must first know how the manufacturer categorises the appliance. As a rule, appliances under 70kW are deemed domestic: however, there are some exceptions and you should check with the manufacturer. Any appliance over 70kW will always be a commercial appliance and you will need non-domestic qualifications to work on it.

Where a domestic appliance is fitted in a commercial building, it is the appliance classification that matters. For instance, if there is a stand-alone domestic boiler fitted in a factory, then you need CENWAT to work on that appliance.

However, where multiple domestic appliances with an aggregate of over 70kW are fitted in series in the same room – for example two 40kW boilers fitted together, then the room becomes a plant room. As such, you need commercial knowledge and qualifications as well as the domestic boiler qualification.

You should also know the limitations of the pipework on which you can work. If you have domestic qualifications, you can work on up to a U16 meter, 35mm copper or 1¼” steel, and an installation volume of 0.035m3. Anything over this requires non-domestic qualifications.
 
I'm glad you agree. Many buildings have domestic appliances installed in different areas. The installation however, is usually commercial size and requires commercial qualifications, knowledge and experience as well as the correct insurance cover. This is why IGEM use the criteria they do and include the primary meter as part of it.
 
Last edited:
I'm glad you agree. Many buildings have domestic appliances installed in different areas. The installation however, is usually commercial size and requires commercial qualifications, knowledge and experience as well as the correct insurance cover. This is why IGEM use the criteria they do and include the primary meter as part of it.
Yes however Gas Safe made it clear as long as the client is aware of all this and what work you have carried out that is ok as long as it is in your remit and meets the criteria which u stated. In response to what you said in regard to the AECV if it was letting by we work solely on the maintenance of schools and I would contact a commercial gas engineer of this and he would then attend and rectify
 
Yes however Gas Safe made it clear as long as the client is aware of all this and what work you have carried out that is ok as long as it is in your remit and meets the criteria which u stated. In response to what you said in regard to the AECV if it was letting by we work solely on the maintenance of schools and I would contact a commercial gas engineer of this and he would then attend and rectify
That's the point, it doesn't fit within the remit of a domestic installer to my mind. If the installation is commercial, then everything connected to it requires commercial qualifications and experience.

Will Gas Safe Technical to put it in writing that you are qualified to work on commercial gas installations in Schools but just on the domestic appliances, so long as the customers is aware?

If all your work is in Schools and on gas installations, then you need to get your commercial gas qualifications. The domestic qualification does not cover your work does it?

At the end of the day it is your decision whether you work on it or not and it has little to do with me. I do think you need to be careful. If something goes wrong, it is your neck! I'm only thinking of you. Always make sure you are fully covered in the event that something goes wrong. Everything is fine until it isn't!
 
That's the point, it doesn't fit within the remit of a domestic installer to my mind. If the installation is commercial, then everything connected to it requires commercial qualifications and experience.

Will Gas Safe Technical to put it in writing that you are qualified to work on commercial gas installations in Schools but just on the domestic appliances, so long as the customers is aware?

If all your work is in Schools and on gas installations, then you need to get your commercial gas qualifications. The domestic qualification does not cover your work does it?

At the end of the day it is your decision whether you work on it or not and it has little to do with me. I do think you need to be careful. If something goes wrong, it is your neck! I'm only thinking of you. Always make sure you are fully covered in the event that something goes wrong. Everything is fine until it isn't!
Yes I totally agree with you mate and I am pursuing to complete my commercial gas qualifications then I will be covered a 100%
 
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