Does pan need to fully-insert into soil pipe?

[smallsteve]

It’s time to buy a new toilet and I need to ensure that the one i buy will meet up correctly with the soil pipe outlet (sunk in floor), such that the cistern sits against the wall.
My question is, is it necessary for a pan spigot to fully insert into the soil pipe connector (McAlpine WC-CON8)? Reason I ask is that it seems that if it is only partially inserted then there is a gap within the connector head for waste matter to drop into and build-up?! Is this a problem or a non-issue?
For example, if the spigot was only to sit 10mm within the connector, that would leave a 33 mm gap (McAlpine quote 43mm ref measurement) between the end of the spigot and the thinner part of the connector i.e not the head.
If the spigot has to be fully inserted, then it reduces my options a fair smount on which toilet I can use and i would have to be pretty-damned accurate on measurements, as the plasterboard is not yet on and there is also the thickness of tiles to factor in. :-/

 

[smallsteve]

Further example: Using the WC-CON8, the insertable measurement for my installation is at 122mm – 165mm from the (calculated) tiled surface. The Grohe Bau spigot is 150mm inset from cistern edge. So, the spigot will only project 15mm into the head, leaving a gap behind of 28mm. Issue, or non-issue?

Obviously there are other manufacturers (for toilet and pipe) out there and maybe their measurements would be closer to what is required, but perhaps still not ideal. So, it's really a general question I ask to understand what flexibility I have? And on the subject of flexibility, I'd ideally like to avoid having to use such a connector.

 

[Deleted member 120897]

Not much of a clue what you’re on about, but connections do need to be full socket. A photo may assist in your description.

 

[smallsteve]

Not much of a clue what you’re on about, but connections do need to be full socket. A photo may assist in your description.

Basically, does the soil pipe connector need to be fully pushed-on to the spigot of the toilet, as far as it will go, or can it be backed off by any reasonable distance to compensate for different fittings of toilet?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Needs to be fully on / home

 

[snowhead]

As above needs to be fully inserted or as you're guessing they'll be possible blockages.
If it's only on 10mm it risks being pushed of by the force of flushing over time.

There are many options of connectors and extensions so fitting short on the panshould not be neccessary.

As above have you any photos / sketches of the potential layout and issue(s) you foresee?

 

[smallsteve]

As above needs to be fully inserted or as you're guessing they'll be possible blockages.
If it's only on 10mm it risks being pushed of by the force of flushing over time.

There are many options of connectors and extensions so fitting short on the panshould not be neccessary.

As above have you any photos / sketches of the potential layout and issue(s) you foresee?

Picture 3 shows the original connector that was fitted, where you will see that there is a deep lip that I was referring to; perfect for catching debris! Over lunch, I have bought the McAlpine connector and that is obviously a better design and doesn’t have this problem / lip (Pic1).
Pic 2 show us where the soil pipe is in the floor and when the plasterboard is brought out to the correct level and tiles are applied, I estimate that the nearest edge of the soil pipe body (90mm) will be 32 mm away from the finished edge - very difficult to move the pipe in the floor! So that is what I am using to project forward and determine where the connector will reach to and ultimately, where I need the spigot to be on the toilet i purchase i.e how deep it is recessed from the cistern.
From what has been said above, it looks like there is a little flexibility in positioning and so I guess I need to be fairly exact on the calculated position of that spigot!? If I mis-calculate, I suppose I will have to hunt around for other pan connectors and hope I can get something that works. :-/
I can’t move the toilet out any further, as it will project into a doorway as it is a very small ensuite. But I want to be sure before spending a lot of money on a fancy throne, that I am not going to have major problems fitting it. The trouble is though, I am struggling to determine exactly what depth of spigot is required and what kind of tolerance i’m working to? I could easily be 10mm out by the time everything is installed. But i can’t sort the wall until I know where to bring the pipe out for the toilet i buy.

 

[exedon2]

If distance from wall is a problem look for 'short projection ' wc pans/suites .
Find one you like then check dimensions work with your drain .
It's that simple!

 

[smallsteve]

If distance from wall is a problem look for 'short projection ' wc pans/suites .
Find one you like then check dimensions work with your drain .
It's that simple!

Indeed and that is what i have been doing. The uncertainty is around the pan-to-spigot connection, as described.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

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Depending on your distances you need to work this out from the finished wall eg tiles and addy on etc

 

[exedon2]

Once you have sorted pan your using the all you need is pan spigot to finished wall distance to see if it will work!
It's not unusual to see bent pan connectors a bit out of plumb to accommodate small discrepancies.

 

[smallsteve]

Once you have sorted pan your using the all you need is pan spigot to finished wall distance to see if it will work!
It's not unusual to see bent pan connectors a bit out of plumb to accommodate small discrepancies.

OK thanks. I’m probably overthinking this a bit, but i want to avoid a mis-calculation that results in a gap between the wall and the cistern.

 

[Ben-gee]

Use a multikwik MKB3190, shove it down your pipe and push the pan on. These can lean forward or back a lot and still not leak.

If that’s a collar, put in a bit of 110 pipe first.

 

[smallsteve]

.

Use a multikwik MKB3190, shove it down your pipe and push the pan on. These can lean forward or back a lot and still not leak.

If that’s a collar, put in a bit of 110 pipe first.

Thanks Ben. Do these offer more flexibility than the CON8?

 

[Ben-gee]

Yes

 

[smallsteve]

Finished wall to spigot distance (CON8 / CON8E) is 115mm / 155mm respectively. The Multikwik mentioned isn’t long enough unfortunately.
I am limited on space and so looking at (good brand) toilets with reach of approx 620 - 640mm; there are models at 600, but perhaps they are a bit too short. Spigots are obviously all different positions and none are bang-on.
The RAK Metropolitan has its spigot at 125mm and i wonder if i’ll get away with angling the connector to make it fit? Just not sure what i can get away with.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You can add the extension in the link I posted to push it out more

 

[smallsteve]

You can add the extension in the link I posted to push it out more

Should have been clearer, in that i was referring to the height as opposed to length.
Looking at combinations of CON8 / CON8E / EXT gives me the following:
115mm, 155mm, 158mm to 239mm.
WCs i’ve looked at have spigots at 125, 150 and so on. I assume 10mm is pushing it a bit and risking a leak, but i guess 5mm is fine i.e 150?
On a separate point, are there any reasons i should avoid the 600-reach WCs?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You can cut the extension down to what ever length you require

But no 5mm lean isn’t going to harm anything