do you need a qualification to do private jobs even though you are competant?

[that bloke.]

i have just learned that you do but im not so sure?

 

[HoodedClaw]

The min you need is water regs, without that your open to prosecution from the water board should any problems occur to the mains supply.
You need unventered cert to touch unvented cylinders.

 

[that bloke.]

thanks for clearing that up for me HC , now to get a regs cert (daft question time) do you need to be qualified ?
how do you go about getting a regs cert?

 

[Henno82]

Here you go TB i'm sure they do these in different areas too not just York

http://www.ppltraining.co.uk/courses/renewable-energy-courses-3/bpec-water-regulations-course-36.htm

 

[HoodedClaw]

most training places will do a water regs course, some in a day but as the exam is 1/2 day and I spent about 30 hours reading up before hand i think they may just get you through it rather than getting you to remember if its an AUK 2 or 3 thats needed..

If the work is to be signed off by the building inspector I don't think you actually need any, once they sign it - its their responsibility thats it was installed correctly

 

[fuzzy]

how do you know your competant if you have no quals?

 

[that bloke.]

cheers guys , i shall have a look locally for a course.
fuzzy how do you know people with quals are competent? I know i am competent to do the work i have been taught and trained to do other wise i wouldn't be able to do it. Ive done the first year of an NVQ2 but i have learned much much more working with different firms over the years than i ever would have at college, from plumbing up new builds to pipe fitting down in London.
i would never dream of taking on work if i didnt know what i was doing.

 

[moony]

someone mentioned you cant touch unvented without a ticket - you can but you have to get building inspector to sign it off - £££'s so people prefer to use installers with an unvented ticket - thus being able to sign there own work off

 

[that bloke.]

i know when doing electrical work that is notifiable if you get a BI to sign it off they charge a percentage of the whole project cost , is it the same with plumbing?

 

[Bernie2]

You can usually do whatever you like regarding Plumbing. So long as you get signed off what needs signing off. It is not gas work.

If your incompetent and make a mess of it people will sue you. But if you follow regs and can prove you have that is usually accepted as proof of competence. All this talk of qualification sounds like a Plumber needs to spend 90% of his or her working year in the class room. When does he or she do the work to earn the money for all the courses?

 

[Toddyplumb]

Its quite easy Bernie . You do a 4 year indentured apprenticeship earning a bare wage and then you are qualified and can then do top up knowledge courses throughout your working life .

 

[that bloke.]

you can then earn top dollar for your work and your job prospects are very good , not just in this country either. unlike a part qualified person such as my self who struggles to find work and to go back to college would struggle even more on a bare or perhaps none existent wage what with a mortgage to pay,a family to support and a house to bring out of the building site stage and into a stage where we can actually live in it comfortably ,so college although not impossible could/would put all of the above in jeopardy.
i only wish i was 20 years younger with no responsibility's , that would make things so much easier.

 

[Toddyplumb]

Stick at it !

 

[that bloke.]

I will certainly try Toddy , not much choice on that one fella.

 

[quality]

how do you know your competant if you have no quals?

I understand your question and agree entirely - however I have never been a plumber or a gas fitter but enrolled as a cat 2 candidate for my ACS after an agreement with Corgi / Gas safe

I did my weeks assessments and passed ,had my inspection and passed then got my registration

I am not blowing my horn I do have qualifications but not plumbing ones unless you count water regs or other short course carp

 

[fuzzy]

You wouldnt expect a client to be able to check your competancy by checking out all your past jobs. as with anything else the only easy way of checking is a persons qualifications.
if quals are not a record of knowledge why do companies ask for the when advertising a post?

 

[fuzzy]

You can usually do whatever you like regarding Plumbing. So long as you get signed off what needs signing off. It is not gas work.

If your incompetent and make a mess of it people will sue you. But if you follow regs and can prove you have that is usually accepted as proof of competence. All this talk of qualification sounds like a Plumber needs to spend 90% of his or her working year in the class room. When does he or she do the work to earn the money for all the courses?

well the system of going to college for 4 years worked for decades, now people complain about educating theirselves, typical

 

[fuzzy]

it seems to be a reacurring theme with some on this board. Trying to knock the education system by saying its takes too long, its too expensive, it proves nothing. Why when it comes to trades do people think they can pick it up in 2 minutes or their experience is all thats required, you would put trust in a doctor or similar without some comfort that they had at least done some study, why should we do any different for trades.
I dont want our trade or any other watered down, its a good skill and something to be proud of, its not to be reduced to a mocking by people who want to get into it quickly.

Out of all the ones who knock education, how many of them have comepled a full apprenticeship or full NVQ3 or C&G advanced, wether as a school leaver or as an adult retraining?

 

[Bernie2]

The thing is, like most qualification, gaining it, only says you have understood somebody else's idea of how to do things.

As to a trade, well 4 years weekly day release makes for about 204 days study minus holidays makes for about 150 days study which comes to about 7.5 months concentrated 5 days a week study. The study time is probably a lot less than this.
But if you said 7.5 months concentrated study, that is less than somebody going on a 12 month training course.

The difference is of course, the apprentice also gets 40.5 months practical experience and in practise its the experience many employers want not the qualification. This experience differs from the learnt experience of qualification, because you have done it yourself and observed what happens under working conditions yourself and so have your own resource of learnt experience as well as that of somebody else's.

You could sit me down and talk for years about how to run a three minute mile and even give me a qualification in sport. But getting me to put running kit on and me actually being able to run a mile very fast is to say the least somewhat different.

Most Plumbing companies usually ask who you worked for last and it is who it was, that usually gets you a job. A bit like a car mechanic saying he or she worked for Fred and another saying they had been laid off by Rolls Royce. No competion really is there? The thing is of course, the guy who worked for Fred may be a more competent mechanic than the one who worked for Rolls. But most people would probably go for the guy from Rolls because they know they make world class cars. Plumbing is the same.

 

[fuzzy]

a qualification isnt cast iron proof you can do the job but how else do you measure competance accuratley? Yes expeirence is key to alot of the components of a trade but the qualification proves you have undergone the proper training and covered the range of aspects covered in the trade.

You could teach yourself to drive, why do we have driving tests?

 

[Bernie2]

Fair enough fuzzy, but qualification does not really prove you have under gone proper training. Plumbing is also a job you have to do with your hands as well as your head. Plenty of artists are qualified but can they paint like Renoir?

In Europe they call trades people "artisans" meaning an artist who works with their hands.

Say for instance you where examined and qualified for following British Standards one year, but the next year they changed, like they do, as more is found out about the subject.
Does that mean you are qualified one year but not the next and where you doing things wrong last year by following outdated information?

Its interesting, but most employers will only take you on for what they think you should know or what you tell them you have done, not your qualifications. The likes of the JIB only give you a grade if what you say is backed up by your past employers.

I once spoke to a "sparks" boss who said he took on sparks and paid them according to their grade. But if they could not do what their grade said they should be able to do, he gave them the sack.

The possible reason is of course, is that companies only get paid for what they produce not the qualifications they have.

 

[stenno]

As long as you have had some training say short college course, then you should be able to do small jobs such as replacing tap washers, replacing taps, fitting isolator valves, outside taps, repairing ball valves etc, wouldn't even think about doing central heating, gas or electrical work etc, unless you are properly qualified, but doing all the small jobs experienced plumbers don't want to do, because they say it's a waste of time and don't pay enough money, I don't see a problem with as long as you have Insurance to cover yourself.
What they don't realise is do half a dozen of these small jobs a day and it is actually good money..

 

[WaterTight]

Well, they do realise that. Most of them start off doing that. What they'd prefer to do is to earn their money without rushing here and there, feeding parking meters, phoning round to re-arrange times. There's no question a successful and busy jobbing plumber can earn the same as the guy doing 2 weeks work on one full install but the stress levels are generally way higher.

 

[moony]

i do my big jobs in the day and small jobs of an evening - been caught out a couple of times and been late getting home but thats life.


all this talk of qualifications and experience etc - the most important question asked is who did you serve your time with, this gives the answers either oh i went to college and studied part time or the most sought after answer " i served my time with sauch and such" the term time served is what people are looking for not the qualfication as such but the 4 years experience with the qualifications to back it up, if they get rid of that theyve killed the trade imo.

 

[fuzzy]

agree moony, its not really a case of which is most important, training or experience, well its both, one without tuther aint so good

 

[that bloke.]

you know when i did my nvq year one my tutors would sit down and pretty much tell us the answers to our questions in our exams.
sure education plays a big part but many many educated qualified plumbers start out in the big wide world after going through college pretty clueless.
perhaps a lot of it falls down to the individual qualified or not , some are good at what they do and some are not , and to be fair the only way to tell if someone is truly competent is to test them , would you test a plumber if he came to plumb in your dish washer?

 

[fuzzy]

you know when i did my nvq year one my tutors would sit down and pretty much tell us the answers to our questions in our exams.
sure education plays a big part but many many educated qualified plumbers start out in the big wide world after going through college pretty clueless.
perhaps a lot of it falls down to the individual qualified or not , some are good at what they do and some are not , and to be fair the only way to tell if someone is truly competent is to test them , would you test a plumber if he came to plumb in your dish washer?

like a driving license, doesnt mean your a good driver but the only way of judging that is realistic