Customer's expectations

[Ric2013]

Hi ladies and gents,

Just thought I'd give you a laugh.

As some of you are aware, I'm currently the owner of a newsagent's shop out in the sticks in Italy. Very long story, but I didn't want to close an 80-year old business if I didn't have to. It was never part of the plan and I intend to come back to the UK as soon as reasonably practicable. Bit fed up with working 6+ day weeks without holidays to earn €2,000 a year, so yes, I will close it!

Anyway, today a customer came in, my aunt served him and he left and later came back to complain we'd charged him ("and I'm a customer, not a tourist", he said) €2,00 for receiving and printing an email [what he doesn't realise is that it is the tourists that make the public service aspect for the locals possible]. I'm more diplomatic than my aunt, and I'm (supposedly) the boss so I handled it. Since I'm a newsagent, stationer, and bookseller, with 'FAX SERVICE' on the door and not a fishmonger, I thought it was obvious that this was a service I provide and would charge for. Still, I bit my tongue and said, if you feel it's excessive, here, have the money back. Instead, he finished his rant without giving me a word in edgeways and walked out implying that we would lose his custom (he spends around €20 a month on which we earn €4).

Given that the other newagent will have far less patience for him than I have (I think he has Asperger's to be honest and we make allowances), I left a letter for him at the grocer's:


[translated] Good evening ----,

You left without giving me the chance to speak.

Firstly, I was left quite unhappy that you are unhappy that I made you pay €2 for the receipt and printing of an email. My aunt is clearly not at fault here as she was simply following the price list, as is her job. If, however, I wasn't clear with you and you had the impression this was supposed to a favour, then you should not have been charged.

Regarding the cost, I'd like to charge less, but running this shop is the worst paid job I have ever had and I think I'll have to close it in the next few months. As I suspect is public knowledge, for every Euro taken at the till for newspapers and magazines, we earn almost twenty cents (less, if one considers the delivery charges). In practice, every year, I have to find €25,000 just to open the doors in a legal manner (for various overheads, including the business phone line I pay for in order to have internet). My father, being a pensioner, had a discount on Italian NICs [half the €4000 I have to pay... ouch], and he had many other sources of income, and even he intended to close last December [ ... ].

True, €2,00 (the minumum charge for up to 13 pages of black and white) seems a lot to me as well, but, when I started this service last summer at a lower price (a service my father refused to offer as he felt it wasted too much time), even customers were complaining I was under-charging. In the end, I did the maths, considered the time involved (and the fact that computers can be diabolical work partners, hence I do not always succeed in getting a printout to come out correctly at the first attempt) and €2,00 seemed a fair price: a price other good customers pay willingly. When I think about it, the hairdresser charges me €1 a minute (and I'm her relative as well as her customer), but I pay this price in order to retain this service in the village. [The next village is 5 miles away.]

This does not take away the fact that if this was supposed to be a favour, it shouldn't have been paid. This is what upsets me, not losing your custom. And if you want a refund, the offer is still valid.

Kind regards [ ... ]



My aunt said I'd taken the words from her mouth... and could she sign it too. I mean, generally customers do pay. That's why they are customers. We both agreed that if the silly sod had said he wanted a favour and didn't want to pay us we would have done it for free, once, anyway. Perhaps when the forum member that was looking for his free plumber finds him, he can ask him where the free copy shop is.

Nice to know you find them in every trade!

Take care,

R

 

[Ric2013]

For some reason this stupid forum won't let me put three dots (ellipses) and turns them into stars!

 

[Chuck]

Some years ago, when £10 worth rather more than it is nowadays, I got my watch battery changed in a small shop. Later that day, I said to my father "I've just been charged £100 an hour to change a 50p battery!". He thought about this for a bit and replied, "No, he charged you 50p for the battery and £9.50 for being in business when you needed it changed."

 

[Ric2013]

Some years ago, when £10 worth rather more than it is nowadays, I got my watch battery changed in a small shop. Later that day, I said to my father "I've just been charged £100 an hour to change a 50p battery!". He thought about this for a bit and replied, "No, he charged you 50p for the battery and £9.50 for being in business when you needed it changed."

Exactly (though that seems a bit steep, even today).

 

[Gasmk1]

Exactly (though that seems a bit steep, even today).

Depends on the watch a quite few years ago was quoted £125 for one on of my tag watches a few months ago was quoted similar for same watch and another a tissot. Bought the batteries and changed myself, the only difference being not changing the sealing o’ring. Joys of expensive watches. Watch kit of Amazon £15.00

 

[Ric2013]

Depends on the watch a quite few years ago was quoted £125 for one on of my tag watches a few months ago was quoted similar for same watch and another a tissot. Bought the batteries and changed myself, the only difference being not changing the sealing o’ring. Joys of expensive watches. Watch kit of Amazon £15.00

Well, exactly. Some are easier to work on than others, so if it took him ten minutes, it probably wasn't an easy one.

 

[IND_Nick]

I think you have it exactly right in the title, 'expectations'! Some people are blissfully unaware of what it costs to run and operate a business, no matter how small. Overheads have to be covered and profit needs to be made or else what's the point.
I have a few lads who sub contract to me on a day rate. When they have their own work they often ask me what to charge and when I question them on pricing they are way under what I would be quoting. Usually they come back with the fact it is a friend or repeat customer hence not wanting to upset them. But when you break down the time, materials and then contributions to overheads(van, tools, insurance, qualifications and time served experience), then don't forget you give 25% plus away every Jan! Ha.
It's great to have friends but they don't pay the bills and that is exactly what work is for!
I have always believed if you do the job correctly, are neat and tidy, communicate with the client and make sure everything has been completed as requested why should you not charge a decent rate. I think sometimes the trades undervalue themselves allowing customers to push prices right down. Quality work and service should be paid for accordingly!
Apologies that turned into a bit of a rant.

 

[Ric2013]

I think we all need a rant sometimes. There's a big difference between the cost of DIY and getting someone in: it's called free labour!

It's interesting what people's priorities are. I once had a job in a food shop on minimum wage - not enough really for those who had to pay rent. Some shoppers would regularly spend £100 on food shopping and posh wine for one meal. Plumbing jobs that look expensive really aren't a lot of money for such people and having grown up with essential jobs having to wait for months because we couldn't afford the repairs, someone having to choose between a few nice meals and a new sink or whatever doesn't really get my sympathy.

There are quite a few ordinary people that have different expectations. Given my background, this isn't something I'd really seen before. I wouldn't know how to spend £100 on a meal so I consider myself lucky, but I really don't see fairness that some people struggle to buy food while others struggle to eat it all. It also occurred to me that if I earnt more, I'd still be frugal, but I'd pay more tax (which is mostly spent on essential public services) and could afford to buy more food for the food bank. There was no virtue in being frugal just so that your customers have more money to spend elsewhere.

The people that want you to take a pay cut for their benefit often arent those that need it. If I were earning (over the year, including cleaning the van and stuff like that), £25 an hour, then that might be reasonable if it's essential work for a poorer customer. But someone who wants a new tap because they don't like the colour of the old one isn't a charity case. My father seemed to always find the cheapest price, but usually it was cheap because he didn't care what the job turned out like, not because he was ripping anyone off. Charging a FAIR price i.e. enough to earn a living wage and invest in the business so that you can keep going is not unreasonable: to go below that, the job really has to be a genuine charity case and, to do charity work, you need spare money!

Back to the customer who wanted a free copy shop, we were on friendly terms (as I am with all customers), but that was it. And, while he's not rich, he's not a charity case either.

As for friends, I think it depends on the friend. I have a friend who is a software engineer and I've helped him with a few DIY jobs, but he's helped me with my laptop and website. That's fair.

 

[WC1]

I know working with family is incredibly complex. I put my plumbing career on hold to help a family business many years ago, although I can't say I regret it, it taught me a lot about running a business. Looking back I should have gotten out of it sooner. Just sayin'

 

[gmartine]

Pin the letter up.

 

[Ric2013]

Pin the letter up.

Why? It's a private matter between me and him.
In any case, the letter obviously calmed him down seeing as he's still buying his magazines from me.

 

[Knappers]

I had a customer with a nice 4 bed house once that scoffed at my rates for a few hours work and said "that's ridiculous, it's more than I get paid!".
Despite being offended by her attitude I politely pointed out that my rates also pay for: my van, my petrol, my insurance, a guarantee, equipment, uniform etc, and also have to cover my pension, holidays, sickpay, downtime and admin (and explaining to dim customers how the world works!).

 

[gmartine]

Why? It's a private matter between me and him.
In any case, the letter obviously calmed him down seeing as he's still buying his magazines from me.

Partly the same reason you wrote it and posted it here... to vent and let people know the true cost of running the place and what services they'll be losing when you eventually do close it. It's barely a sustainable business as it is and the villagers appear to have other choices too. I'm not saying you need to put a name on it to embarrass just remind folks not to take your service for granted if they want it to continue.

I've had nearly all the pubs (4) around me (10 minute walk) close bar one and turned into residential, folks tried and tried as every year or so management/ownership changed but in the end not enough folks used them. Between lockdowns I was walking the dog and thought I'd pop in for a drink in the immediate area's remaining drink hole. I held the dog up in the window nodding to the bar staff to see if I could enter, nope no dogs allowed. It was early evening and the bar was empty, feck'em they really deserve to close.

 

[Ric2013]

Partly the same reason you wrote it and posted it here... to vent and let people know the true cost of running the place and what services they'll be losing when you eventually do close it. It's barely a sustainable business as it is and the villagers appear to have other choices too. I'm not saying you need to put a name on it to embarrass just remind folks not to take your service for granted if they want it to continue.

We have around 50 loyal customers who buy everything in our line of business they can from us and never complain about prices. In any case, the bulk of our products are newspapers and magazines which are fixed-price with a 20% gross margin, so there's nothing you can do about that. When your customers have known your family for 3 generations, putting up a letter like that publicly would not go down well, and would only be read by people who shop with us regularly in the first place.

The shop has only been made sustainable due to tourist revenue for at least the last 40 years and so the real problem is lack of tourists, resulting from general village mismanagement. The latest news is that the president of the local cooperative supermarket (which is already teetering on the brink of bankruptcy) has decided that when we close she is going to start selling newspapers (because what her shop obviously needs is another expensive to manage and low-profit product) just to prevent my customers from going to the other newsagent.

There's a joke that someone in this village once found a jinn in a bottle that offered him anything he wanted on the understanding that his neighbour would get double what he got. The man eventually asked to be blinded in one eye. I can't wait to get out, frankly.

 

[gmartine]

I don't mean to be cruel or unsympathetic but times have changed probably irreversibly and it's costing you or your family to stay open, their pensions/savings and what little income you take. Your loyalty is honourable but that's all it is and by staying open your diminishing theirs and your standard of living.

Your old clientele will go elsewhere or do without and sadly after three generations the shop will be forgotten about as they move or pass on. Unless you can comfortably lose money keeping it open I'd be winding up the business today and giving notice.

 

[Ric2013]

Thanks for that Gmartine, but I was already ahead of you. As far as the village is concerned, the issue is that community here seems to be more defined by nostalgia and xenophobia than by a real sense of togetherness. More isolated areas than this in North Wales have opened their own community services along cooperative lines and seem to be doing well, and if the locals want a newsagent, book, gift, and very well-stocked stationary shop then they need to work for it - or they can choose to do without and that is entirely up to them and not my problem to solve for them.

There were some legal issues that prevented me closing at the end of March. Otherwise I would have done this. These should resolve within a couple of weeks.

Now there's the summer season which is the one time the shop does actually make money, so it may be worth hanging on a little longer. When I say the shop has lived off tourists for a very long time, that's not to say at all it's been a hard few decades, and this shop was a gold mine until around 2005. Staying open may make it easier to advertise the building for sale. I doubt it's worth much, but rather than maintain and pay tax on it...

The intention therefore is to have a discussion with my commercialista (kind of an accountant, but he deals with all the mindless bureaucracy) in the next few days and decide, based on what information he can give me as to what the procedures are and how long things take, as to when to close.