USA Customer refusal to pay - advice pls

[BigBear]

Hi, I wonder if anyone can help. One of my family members has his own plumbing business and recently installed a boiler for a customer. While he was doing so, the customer asked if he could replace the shower. He did so the same day, while he was there, and did an excellent job. However, the customer has refused to pay for the shower. She is saying she thought the shower was included in the price she paid for the boiler. This is nonsense. This was never the case and was made clear. Having spoken to the Office of Fair Trading, we're told the customer needed to sign a piece of paper to agree to the work being done as per new legislation that had recently come into force. Is this right? The job was done in good faith and this is a lot of money to lose. I wonder if anyone has any advice. Going to a solicitor/court might be throwing good money after bad unless we were sure we would win.

Any help appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[so-solar]

solicitors and courts are your last option! Try speaking to the customer and if it means getting a little irate then do it! Do not tlet them walk over you as they are!

If you nreally struggle then try so settle the bill at a reduced rate? You really want the customer to pay for the shower materials at the very least!

Have you finished all the outstanding works?

If all else fails, turn there stopcock off from outside and fill the hole with quick set cement, at least they wont be showering for a while.
Good luck mate and do not give up hassling them!

 

[secret squirrel]

What a nightmare. I would speak to citizens advice and consumer direct. Both are very good. Unfortunately, a verbal contract doesn't count for anything anymore, having said that if a written estimate was given, this would not have included the cost of the shower that was installed.

If you have the receipt for the boiler and the shower, you may have a case there but I'm no lawyer. If you are forced down the court route, they must have the means to pay otherwise you'll win and still not get any money.

Depending on the amount you can probably go to the small claims court, this can be done on the tinterweb as well. I would put everything in writing from this point on and from the outset mention small claims court and limit the time they can reply "I look forward to your reply within 7 working days".

I would obviously try and avoid court just because of the time and stress involved but you do not need a lawyer for the small claims ct.

Good luck,

I agree with so solar, I have heard not that I'd do it, its outrageous but quick dry cement down the drains works, apparently, the plumber never got the money but apparently the satisfaction was immense..........

 

[jpm]

I wouldn't register the boiler online untill the bill was paid in full.Boiler on the wall works for the customer but it needs to be registered for the sale of the house.Don't register it and there is 'in effect'no g/tee

 

[newbie1]

def not the first and you wont be the last
unfortunatly these days you need to try and get a feel for the customer and if neccsy do a written contract for work to be done as there are plenty of shysters out there who take the **** and bank on you not wanting to go to court where no one wins

 

[Phil]

I wouldn't like to get a bill from yorkshire water for removing cement from their stopcock .

Netto are selling some pretty decent wheel clamps for £15, slap one of them on her car, it may not make her pay her bill but it would make you feel better.

Me? Wouldn't dream of doing any of the above.

 

[radswilldo]

Sounds like scum and must be treated as such, cost this animal as much money as possible over time. This makes me mad, feel like having a rant, this country needs to be cleansed of these type of people, they're multiplying like vermin. Thanks

 

[badbob]

What annoys me about builders though I add things ontop of the original quote, which I I'll pay for and he looks at me like I raped his daughter. Do these people want work or what?

 

[flat pack]

protest outside
get the family and mates etc
buy a load of t shirts the same colour orange is good
set up paste table with snack and drink
print leaflets for the street neighbours and lamp posts
make some banner out of old sheets use some old paint to write with
print a big sticker for one of the mates car with the local rag paper on it
or better than that put a dish on top of a plain white van to look like tv company...............

or cut your losses and get a muck spreader to spray her house with ****tttt

good luck

 

[BigBear]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm loving all the tips for revenge! But I think we're going to go to a solicitor and get legal advice.

Thanks again.

 

[Bernie2]

That doesn't sound right nor does the info off the Fair Trades. Perhaps the customer is getting mixed up with an old national offer from I think BG.

They offered a boiler and a free shower thrown in.

Its just possible.

 

[Puddle]

To me it sounds like the customer know exactly what they were doing when they got him to fit the shower as well, probably think because the tradesman is a one man band they can get away with it, take heart from the fact that 70% of people pay something after they receive a letter from a Solicitor, hopefully that’s all they need and are just chancers

Everyone is going on about registered tradesmen but as I have said before I know far more rouge customers than rouge tradesmen
I think customers should have log books like appliances and every time a tradesman does a job for them and they pay ok and keep out of the way, they get the book stamped, then when another tradesman goes to do another job for them, he can check the log book, if they had a good record we could even give them some discount ( not to much mind )and just as they may ask for a reference from us ,we should be able to get a reference from them

 

[flat pack]

when to a lawyer some years ago,,,,,,,,,,,

did that some years ago and was told we did not have a case
but my wife did it her self , and guess what we won plus extras

another time we won from a big company ,two men in suits with no paper work we slaughter them , my wife also did this case

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

if you can prove what you charge for a boiler install with previous copy invoices and they show a consist charge, (obviuosly variable with installs) and you can show the same for the shower installs you have done (again variable with installs) then you should have a case. Your previous invoices should show that what the customer has paid for the work you did is far below what you charge to make a living.

 

[bobpape]

I can spot a potential nocker whilst talking to them on the phone,
certain nationalities ring immediate alarm bells,

The higest risk is area is jobbing plumbing,

Big jobs being carried out to a writen specification for a building professional
are the safest but even then there are some slippery architects/ project managers out there, just make sure you get written AIs for variations,

A blue duplicate book works a treat,

On the bright side so far only one person has got one over me, an oriental
lady called me out for no mains water, on arrival I found the water board
stopcock had been shut off, the bill I still remember came to £12.50 for which she gave me a cheque which bounced, I later found out that the water board had turned her off for non payment, so I thought there was no point in persuing the matter, this was in the 70s,

I have witnessed far more rogue (potential) clients than rogue traders,

 

[shepster]

Have they got a cat?







Seriously though, verbal contracts don't exist unless they are old school 'good as my word' type and so you have to go with a brief written schedule/plan of the job which in my experience is done at the quoting or estimate stage. If there is extra work on the day you should 100% identify it for what it is, EXTRA WORK. If work is carried out within your '''''day''''' rate then the customer has a point to some degree as long as they pay for all the materials, if they are trying to avoid that also then I go back to my earlier point....






Have they got a cat?......

Sorry what I meant to say is get a solicitors letter out to them and make life difficult for them. I have had one customer quibble and moan and refuse to pay for what was agreed and it was job I did over christmas and no body else would touch them initially as the property was full of squatters so I new I was taking a risk but I had the written agreement. 6 weeks later and a solicitors letter I had my money.!



They don't have a cat anymore!

 

[david williams]

allways get custermer to put any extra and all work requests in writing two copys one each no problem

 

[flat pack]

they have a new shower fitted with a date on it,but they don't have the shops bill,
normal time it taken me around 7 mths to get to small claims court.

but when she gets a letter from you /small claims for her defence statement,
this will be about 3mths down the line
1/ she may go and buy a shower to get a bill
2 / she may do nothing

but she still has the shower fitted

you can go back to the plumbing shop get a batch number for there order
then get on to the manufacture and then they can give you all the bar code sent to that shop . big brother
a bit like all the boiler are number private detective

the other thing for next time have you seen the wicks add on tv this week
the fitter sign what her installs .......................
good luck

 

[david williams]

smeely tramps its a dept colecting agency they go round the custermers house look like tramps and stink and dont leave tell they get the money

 

[flat pack]

they do the same in parts of spain
they dress up as monks and follow you to work
one monk 1st day
then two monks 2nd day and so on until you pay up

 

[Plouasne]

Can I humbly say, take a leave out of the French law on contracts like this

1) The estimate is written out, preferably typed in duplicate, with a couple of lines at the bottom of the estimate

Signed as accepted for work by Client
Date and Place of signature

with the proviso No request for extra work will be entertained, unless the extra work is written into this estimate and agreed in writing by the client, or a separate estimate raised and accepted by the client

2) Terms and conditions, (the usual blurb) then late payment terms, we reserve the right to charge late and outstanding payments @ 71/2% (name your figure, but not stupidly high), above the high street lending rate

I also wish that the Bank of England would do what the Bank of France does, and that is have a list of bad payers, cheque bouncers, etc so that you can check up on the person, and also put them on the bad payer list

To deliberately write a cheque without sufficient funds to cover the amount, can lead to a 35000€ fine and or 5 years inside, a 10 years ban on having a bank account

I would like to add that the Bank of France local branches do help a person in debt for reason of bad health etc, negotiate the repayment of the loan without charge to the person in debt

 

[doug]

I did a C/H job and bathroom in a empty house, which when the work was complete the landlady made all sorts of excuses not to pay. I sat outside the property and rang her at her house in Golders Green, the conversation went like this.

ME: you can either wire the money into my account in the next 20 minutes or ill let my self in and take the lot out

HER: well that way you wont get paid at all.

2 hours later we had stripped the lot out. I used all the stuff elsewhere, she was ****ed off but i had emense satisfaction.

 

[dublin plumber]

keep ringing the house for your money , night and day , the last time i had that problem , i rang on the hour it really got them going cant do a thing about it , and they love a call at 4 am in the mornin they stuc it out for a week and gave up and paid me !!