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Our indirect copper water cyclinder has started leaking. Not a flood but enough to wet the whole floor in the airing cupboard. Could not find any obvious leaks from pipe joints, shower pump etc. so called in a plumber. He cut away insulation layer at bottom and found heavy corrosion. He has recomended a replacement. I was surprised because I did not know copper cylinders corroded seriously - he said it would be caused by accumulated limescale deposits - we are in a hard water area and the tank is over 20 hyears old, maybe 30 (already here when we moved in).

I would like to be sure that this really is the tank gone, as opposed to the pipe joint at the bottom. Can anyone offer their views please? These pics are odd angles - the pipe is entering the tank bottom right.

Thanks

tank 1.JPG
tank 2.JPG
 
Yea quite common, you've done well if it's over 20 years probably 1/8th full of rubbish since your in a hard water area
 
I changed mine which was probably the same age. 1 the old weighed a lot more than the new one due to the scale in the bottom and 2 it now warms up quicker so in theory saves money.
 
20 + years you have done well get it changed it will pay for its self in reduced energy costs over the next few years .kop
 
Copper cylinders still avalible bud if thats what you want changed two recently. kop
 
Various reports out there analysing steel vs copper. This one is very clearly in favour of copper: Copper v Stainless Steel Hot Water Cylinders. Key extracts:

The University of Ulster has recently published a report which compares the performance of a stainless steel hot water cylinder with a copper cylinder manufactured to the exact same specifications.

The results of the report found that using a copper hot water cylinder on an exact like for like specification reduced the heat up time of the water by 28.8% over stainless steel.

The University of Ulster then went on to compare a standard copper cylinder with a standard stainless steel cylinder, and found the copper cylinder showed a 62.6% increase in the power output.

The report goes a long way to demonstrating the long term cost benefits of using copper hot water cylinders in your project, without even mentioning the copper’s superior bacteria killing properties, flexibility, long lifespan and recyclability.
 
Yes Paul , I have read these reports and do agree with them ( mostly )
However , in a hard water area the stainless come out on top ( in my opinion ) .
Your HW cost of your gas bill is very small in relation to your heating.
 
The quality is not in the cylinders like it was in the older ones so newer cylinders are been replaced more frequently
 
The quality is not in the cylinders like it was in the older ones so newer cylinders are been replaced more frequently

Yes agree but why do you think that is ?
 
The older cylinders were a thicker grade all the newer one's are the minimum thickness they can get away with .had a few insulated cylinders perforate like a teabag under the skin away from seams or connections just bad copper ,a lot of recycled metals have been recycled so much the goodness is gone out of the metal now
 
The older cylinders were a thicker grade all the newer one's are the minimum thickness they can get away with .had a few insulated cylinders perforate like a teabag under the skin away from seams or connections just bad copper ,a lot of recycled metals have been recycled so much the goodness is gone out of the metal now

Good reply also the care and attention has gone and washing / cleaning of the flux has gone to the wind a bit also
 
My antique cylinder had a anode pinched into the middle of the bottom dome ! ( Was weeping , drip,drip )
 
Report is pointless if you are trying to apply it to real-world installations. Better heat transfer on an exact like-for-like basis if cylinder is copper. Bit like saying concrete tiles on roofs are defective because if made same thickness as slate (like-for-like) they don't last. Or that MDPE water mains are defective because they don't stand the pressure if made as thin as copper ones.

A stainless cylinder will hopefully have a longer coil to compensate for the fact that it doesn't conduct heat as well as copper so probably won't be like-for-like at all!
 
Any of you lads remember drilling and fitting the coil yourself back in the old days ..lol

seen the old man do it and a immersion boss
 
You must be talking about the old immersion kit done it about twice a big brass flange cut it out and two notches into cylinder to slide the under flange into it ,done a few off the coils alright use to dread them I was the youngest and always got that job lol fecked up the odd cylinder as well lol done my first cylinder as a bet in 87 with an uncle who was the plumber I was only 16 told him I could do that off with you so he sad lol and it was perfect he gave up doing them then lol
 
You must be talking about the old immersion kit done it about twice a big brass flange cut it out and two notches into cylinder to slide the under flange into it ,done a few off the coils alright use to dread them I was the youngest and always got that job lol fecked up the odd cylinder as well lol done my first cylinder as a bet in 87 with an uncle who was the plumber I was only 16 told him I could do that off with you so he sad lol and it was perfect he gave up doing them then lol

yea thats the ones
 
Any of you lads remember drilling and fitting the coil yourself back in the old days ..lol

Yea, Yorkshire 22mm Conversion coils that you had to drill 2 holes - bottom one tight fit and top one a large hole for coil to be screwed through. Large split copper washer inside, copper washer with rubber washer outside. All held with a black plastic tube supplied with each coil.
They lasted often 20 years or more sometimes until the rubber washer needed a replacement kit to fix weeping
 
Would have been quicker replacing the old cylinder and also away to the scrap with it
 
That was when the hot water was heated through a direct cylinder coming from the copper box boiler in the fire cradle .them copper boxes were great for scrapping very thick copper plenty of weight in them a direct cylinder is unheard of nowadays
 
Funny how some job tasks have now disappeared from plumbing work.
And other new tasks are with modern plumbing.
 
That was when the hot water was heated through a direct cylinder coming from the copper box boiler in the fire cradle .them copper boxes were great for scrapping very thick copper plenty of weight in them a direct cylinder is unheard of nowadays

Yes, nearly every house years ago that was getting a heating system installed, only had a direct cylinder linked to a solid fuel little back boiler, or some had a glass fronted room heater that only had small back boiler. Rayburn 70B I think was a very common glass fronted fire
 
anyone know when the immersion coil heaters off the heating came out (with the big bakerlight housing) ?
 
Old ways are tried and trusted a good copper job beats anything , soon apprentice's are not getting the proper training in good copper work the nickname some are getting is plastic plumbers had a lad just out of his time tell me there is no need for a safety valve on a solid fuel boiler his instructor in their course told the class this only needed an expansion .. Told him why didn't he ask why they made safety valves in the first place self explanatory I told him the clue is in the name SAFETY lol
 
Old ways are tried and trusted a good copper job beats anything , soon apprentice's are not getting the proper training in good copper work the nickname some are getting is plastic plumbers had a lad just out of his time tell me there is no need for a safety valve on a solid fuel boiler his instructor in their course told the class this only needed an expansion .. Told him why didn't he ask why they made safety valves in the first place self explanatory I told him the clue is in the name SAFETY lol

To be honest I never have installed a safety valve on solid fuel systems. If proper done and sized vent and feed pipes are installed and no pipes are vulnerable to freezing, then really no need for a PRV. But if the vent and feed in a loft froze, then a PRV close to the boiler would be definitely worth having. I don't really see the point in a PRV in a loft.
Obviously if MIs state it must be installed, then I would fit one.
 
Think your taking up what I said wrong best . I would never put a prv valve in a loft always at the boiler. I wouldn't fit any boiler without one solid fuel is always an open system feed and expansion but always a prv is required at boiler off 28 mm as near to the boiler as possible got called to a job not too long ago no safety valve boiler making a lot of noise piped wrong no safety valve guy that fitted it couldn't stop it pitching into f and e tank so the genius capped it . he is giving the rest of is a bad name doing work like that a potential bomb he left not saying you are wrong but we were always taught any boiler requires a safety valve except the old direct hot water gravity system that expanded through cylinder expansion if needed
 
Think your taking up what I said wrong best . ......

No, I wasn't thinking you had suggested about putting PRV on solid fuel systems in lofts. I was just speaking generally about my thoughts on using PRVs and mentioned their position was important to be close to the boiler, if they are to be a proper safety belt and braces addition.
I still think PRVs are unnecessary on a properly done solid fuel system, but they will do absolutely no harm to have that additional safety, providing obviously the discharge is put to a safe exit and I would be happy to fit one on a cold leg. It will never function though, unless someone allows a house to totally freeze in severe weather and then go in and light the solid fuel boiler. More likely the PRV will seize or begin to pass water due to the heat damage and need replacing.
The solid fuel on direct cylinders ironically are actually more dangerous because the connections can block eventually, whereas indirect systems will not block, so should be safe and always open to the vent and feed.
I guess it is just whoever teaches you, or what system diagrams you copy, as to our methods.
 
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