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Had a replacement boiler fitted 3 days ago. National supplier who subcontracted out to a regional Plumbing Company who sub-contracted it again to a smaller firm. Fitter was Gas Safe registered but the quality of his workmanship was poor. He worked flat out but by 8.30pm he was rushing to finish. He had to adjust his own pipework again to make the magnetic and scale filters accessible. For some reason he filled the back of the upper compression fittings (one 22mm and one 15mm) with solder. Boiler was commissioned and work and he left. I didn’t notice the ‘captive’ compression fittings till the next day. Owing to the tightness against the wall it will now be impossible to replace a 15mm isolating valve that isolates the filling loop or the upper 90 degree isolator-bend that joins the magnetic filter. I have not paid the contracted firm in full yet and I have the tricky job of getting two levels of sub-contractors back through the main contractor to rectify. If at some point in future maintenance is needed on those fittings then a whole lot of costly re-Plumbing will be needed. Please send views and tell me if you think I am making too much of this. Thank you
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I have not paid the contracted firm in full yet and I have the tricky job of getting two levels of sub-contractors back through the main contractor to rectify.

The sub-contractors are not your problem.
Your issue is with the National supplier if that's who you are paying.
It's for them to decide if they need to get their Regional subcontractor back to rectifiy.
It's for the Regional subcontractor to get the local guy back.

It wouldn't be too difficult to replace the valves as they are if required, but shouldn't have been left like that.
Someone was in a rush doing that.

 
Had a replacement boiler fitted 3 days ago. National supplier who subcontracted out to a regional Plumbing Company who sub-contracted it again to a smaller firm.

@snowhead has got the key point, your contract is with National Supplier not the subcontractors.

National Supplier is likely to be expert at palming off complaints in the hope they'll wear you down and give up. Google 'How to complain about poor quality workmanship". Work on the assumption that if NS doesn't want to play ball, you'll want to be able to threaten legal action. To make the threat credible, use the information on the Small Claims Court website as a checklist of the steps to take and evidence you need to collect.

Keep any leaflets or sales literature carefully. Print, or make a pdf of any adverts for the the boiler swap service on the NS website. These often make extravagant statements about "our expert technicians" or "high-quality work", etc. These are called 'representations' and can make winning your case very easy. They also have a habit of disappearing from websites once complaints start coming in.

Citizen's Advice:
have a lot of helpful info for people in your position. They are a charity so please consider making a donation to support their work if they help you.
 
The sub-contractors are not your problem.
Your issue is with the National supplier if that's who you are paying.
It's for them to decide if they need to get their Regional subcontractor back to rectifiy.
It's for the Regional subcontractor to get the local guy back.

It wouldn't be too difficult to replace the valves as they are if required, but shouldn't have been left like that.
Someone was in a rush doing that.
Yes. It is the National Supplier who my contract is with and I have made a £300 retention. Agree that 15mm valve is removable but the 22mm bend/valveI has no available turn radius to twist out of the ‘Captive’ compression joint so pipework imo would need adjusting. Never seen anything like this before.
@snowhead has got the key point, your contract is with National Supplier not the subcontractors.

National Supplier is likely to be expert at palming off complaints in the hope they'll wear you down and give up. Google 'How to complain about poor quality workmanship". Work on the assumption that your complaint may end up as a 'small claims' Court action and use the information on their website as a checklist of the steps to take and evidence you need to collect.

Keep any leaflets or sales literature carefully. Print, or make a pdf of any adverts for the the boiler swap service on the NS website. These often make extravagant statements about "our expert technicians" or "high-quality work", etc. These are called 'representations' and can make winning your case very easy. They also have a habit of disappearing from websites once complaints start coming in.

Citizen's Advice:
have a lot of helpful info for people in your position. They are a charity so please consider making a donation to support their work if they help you win your case.

But from a professional point of view a) Do you see this often? b) What did he achieve that nipping up wouldn’t achieve?
 
a) Do you see this often? b) What did he achieve that nipping up wouldn’t achieve?

I don't think it's intentionally backfilled, it's just run out from the fitting above when he fed extra solder in.
The compression nut is too close to the Yorks fitting.
 
I don't think it's intentionally backfilled, it's just run out from the fitting above when he fed extra solder in.
The compression nut is too close to the Yorks fitting.
Ahh. Good explanation. I’ve never known an uncleaned unfluxed area to take solder like that though - it usually cracks or flakes off. But it is an explanation and it’s difficult to imagine another one. Thanks
 
Maybe he had a jig and pre made this for under the boiler prior to turning up. We used to make jigs on Sunday morning in my workshop until the pub opened at 12.00, saves a lot of time at the job.
 
Maybe he had a jig and pre made this for under the boiler prior to turning up. We used to make jigs on Sunday morning in my workshop until the pub opened at 12.00, saves a lot of time at the job.
Yes another good one. But did any of your jigs ever give this result?
Yes another good one. But did any of your jigs ever give this result?
...and why pre-soldered fittings when he has used end-feed everywhere else?
 
Yes another good one. But did any of your jigs ever give this result?

...and why pre-soldered fittings when he has used end-feed everywhere else?
No we were alot neater, we were doing 2 3 bed semis a week with a gofher each..he did notching, flue holes, hung rads, put boards back dodged the things thrown at him. All done by Friday afternoon, pay more off the mortgage every Friday then down pub. centralheatking
 
I’ve never known an uncleaned unfluxed area to take solder like that though - it usually cracks or flakes off.
People who produce work like that often use lots of acid flux and get it everywhere. Quite possible (likely?) that flux has also run down into the compression fitting and is eating away at the olive right now. :eek:
 
People who produce work like that often use lots of acid flux and get it everywhere. Quite possible (likely?) that flux has also run down into the compression fitting and is eating away at the olive right now. :eek:
Thanks. I knew that excess flux can rot through copper pipes but never thought of copper olives! I’m covered for faulty parts and labour by long term boiler manufacturer’s guarantee on boiler itself but these fittings won’t be covered. Do you agree that these dodgy joints need replacing properly in order to save me paying a gas-fitter in a couple of years time to do them at my own cost?

Would any plumber on this forum accept those captive compression fittings? Need to know if I am making a fuss over nothing please?
 
It's untidy and poor workmanship, but you likely won't need to get the nut off the magna clean anyway. So long as the valve closes, the filter is serviceable. The isolation valve to the filling loop is removable also so not really an issue. What boiler has he fitted? Hard to tell from the photos but looks like the magnetic scale reducer is just before the filling loop to the heating, if your on a combi then this is in the wrong place and if your not on a combi, it's pointless having one.
You also mention the fitter was rushing, did he perform any type of system flush prior to installing the boiler?
 
It's untidy and poor workmanship, but you likely won't need to get the nut off the magna clean anyway. So long as the valve closes, the filter is serviceable. The isolation valve to the filling loop is removable also so not really an issue. What boiler has he fitted? Hard to tell from the photos but looks like the magnetic scale reducer is just before the filling loop to the heating, if your on a combi then this is in the wrong place and if your not on a combi, it's pointless having one.
You also mention the fitter was rushing, did he perform any type of system flush prior to installing the boiler?
Thanks for this Craig. He was down to do a Power Magnetic flush but just did a water power flush of each rad (18! - I opened each flow in turn for him). No magnets or chemicals but I’m satisfied that all pipework and rads clear. Not a combi, a system boiler WB 30i - scale filter included in quote but agree unnecessary (as was system magnetic power-flush). He tried to avoid system flush at start by saying system water was as clean as. But I said part of spec so he was 2.5 hrs doing that (with my help) before he realised that he’d been given a combi not a system boiler (another 2 hrs gone)

Ok. Can see now I’m probs making too much of it but eg the magna-filter is tight to the wall and you can’t fit the large plastic lid removal tool on without stressing the 22mm return pipework. Also don’t those isolators occasionally fail and need replacing. Small point but as it IS a compression fitting it shouldn’t be captive with solder as someone may have to sort that out ,at my expense, in future. Thanks
 
Thanks for this Craig. He was down to do a Power Magnetic flush but just did a water power flush of each rad (18! - I opened each flow in turn for him). No magnets or chemicals but I’m satisfied that all pipework and rads clear. Not a combi, a system boiler WB 30i - scale filter included in quote but agree unnecessary (as was system magnetic power-flush). He tried to avoid system flush at start by saying system water was as clean as. But I said part of spec so he was 2.5 hrs doing that (with my help) before he realised that he’d been given a combi not a system boiler (another 2 hrs gone)

Ok. Can see now I’m probs making too much of it but eg the magna-filter is tight to the wall and you can’t fit the large plastic lid removal tool on without stressing the 22mm return pipework. Also don’t those isolators occasionally fail and need replacing. Small point but as it IS a compression fitting it shouldn’t be captive with solder as someone may have to sort that out ,at my expense, in future. Thanks
Magnaclean have moved on from their problems with isolators, in fact they were de listed from British Gas for a while but I understand all is ok in that dept it was a long time ago ...I know because I designed 3 of the still competing devices ! but fair play to Adey.
They did go back and sort it. Magnaclean is the highest volume
series of mag filters...maybe not the most well designed or even the strongest magnet or finest flow non magnetic debris filter...I wonder who designed those....? centralheatking
 
Magnaclean have moved on from their problems with isolators, in fact they were de listed from British Gas for a while but I understand all is ok in that dept it was a long time ago ...I know because I designed 3 of the still competing devices ! but fair play to Adey.
They did go back and sort it. Magnaclean is the highest volume
series of mag filters...maybe not the most well designed or even the strongest magney or finest flow non magnetic debris filter...I wonder who designed those..? centralheatking
Thanks centralheatKing. It is a WB magnetic filter.
 
Thanks to all who responded to this thread. All the advice was sound and I now know to back off gently and move on. Blood pressure now back to normal!
enjoy your bank holiday thats why we do it for you but we also do UKPF ourselves to help and learn from you and each other
centralheatking
 
Thanks to all who responded to this thread. All the advice was sound and I now know to back off gently and move on. Blood pressure now back to normal!
By all means you can try email national supplier with photos and your concerns and say your withholding the £300 final payment until the work is satisfactory, by satisfactory I mean working correctly and everything serviceable. Poor looking fittings and large drips of solder, unfortunately don't give you much of a leg to stand on.

For future reference, a proper engineer would not have attempted to do your job in a day, it's 2 days minimum to flush and install, takes longer but you get workmanship you'll be happy with. When these larger firms subcontract the work out, it's a set price and the only way the engineer can make any money is to rush the job. In future, employ a local engineer with a good rep.
 
FFS, that's shocking. It looks to me as if he's sweated the solder ring tees and then added solder from his bobbin while doing so. I don't think he's intentionally tried to solder the compression nut.
 
By all means you can try email national supplier with photos and your concerns and say your withholding the £300 final payment until the work is satisfactory, by satisfactory I mean working correctly and everything serviceable. Poor looking fittings and large drips of solder, unfortunately don't give you much of a leg to stand on.

For future reference, a proper engineer would not have attempted to do your job in a day, it's 2 days minimum to flush and install, takes longer but you get workmanship you'll be happy with. When these larger firms subcontract the work out, it's a set price and the only way the engineer can make any money is to rush the job. In future, employ a local engineer with a good rep.
Agree. Half a dozen people have taken a cut of the money. The poor guy at the end turns up to a badly surveyed job, with the wrong boiler and not enough time to do the work and has to pick up the pieces.
 
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By all means you can try email national supplier with photos and your concerns and say your withholding the £300 final payment until the work is satisfactory, by satisfactory I mean working correctly and everything serviceable. Poor looking fittings and large drips of solder, unfortunately don't give you much of a leg to stand on.

For future reference, a proper engineer would not have attempted to do your job in a day, it's 2 days minimum to flush and install, takes longer but you get workmanship you'll be happy with. When these larger firms subcontract the work out, it's a set price and the only way the engineer can make any money is to rush the job. In future, employ a local engineer with a good rep.
Hmmm “in future...”.Sadly all households have to make budgets stretch and at £2 870 for a WB 39i with flushing and filters including 10 yr WB parts and Labour AND 10 year annual servicing (yesI know the company could go bust next year) it would be hard for any independent local heating engineer to compete. I wish it could be otherwise. My point was purely technical ie “are those fittings acceptable”. Thankfully you all agree that they are. So thank you for your input.
 

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