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Discuss Can you re-use a new boiler? in the Gas Engineers Forum area at PlumbersForums.net

SweetWilliam

Messages
17
Hi folks,

Another thought...
The new Ideal Logic Max boiler did not meet the requirements of the job. However during this installation process, the installer realised the problem. Can you tell me, whether the boiler could be un-installed, taken down from the wall (although some of the gas supply pipe work will probably have been done) and the boiler used on another job? Clearly, not the best, but is it possible and would, assuming the installation instructions were followed, the warranty be okay?
The Warranty is only registered on completion, commissioning of the job, I think?

I am trying to understand the position from the installer's losses point of view. If the boiler could be removed and installed on another site, the loss would be in terms of the labour and potentially ancilliary parts?

I welcome your thought on this, please
 

Undertrained

Plumber
Gas Engineer
Messages
1,243
Solutions
2
I can‘t think of a reason why not, as long as the flue is in good condition and installation instructions are available. Is your installer newly qualified?
 

scott_d

Plumber
Gas Engineer
Messages
5,963
A lot of questions about the same boiler but I don’t understand the problem
If it has been filled with water and turned on it’s no longer new in my opinion.
 

SimonG

Esteemed
Plumber
Messages
20,515
How about just detailing your actual problem rather than not telling us the full story.

At the minute it looks like you are looking for ammunition against an installer without giving the full details.

Always 2 sides to a story.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

snowhead

Esteemed
Plumber
Messages
3,543
If the installer accepts that they have sized and fitted the wrong boiler then losses involved shouldn't be an issue for the customer, thats solely for the installer to worry about.

The installer would have 2 options,
Sell the boiler at a loss, for someone else to fit.
Assuming they have a suitable job for it, then provide it at a reduced price to the customer on the basis it's been fitted (but not used?) before.
 

SweetWilliam

Messages
17
I can‘t think of a reason why not, as long as the flue is in good condition and installation instructions are available. Is your installer newly qualified?
Hi, no the firm has been going since 2012 and have installed over 459 boilers, maybe they just got complacent 😒

But thanks, for your thoughts
A lot of questions about the same boiler but I don’t understand the problem
If it has been filled with water and turned on it’s no longer new in my opinion.
No, the problem that the recommended boiler did not support the required flue length, meaning the requirement was for the new boiler's flue to terminate out of the existing (original) exit point.
The fact that the new boiler did not, was only 'discovered' once the boiler had been unpacked and installed on the wall. The flue had not been installed, the installer marked up the wall and drilled holes for the brackets but did not connect the flue to the boiler, as he realised that the flue length would be over the maximum length.
So, the boiler was not filled with water only fitted to the wall.
Yes, lots of questions as it is difficult to understand what has gone on and why, especially as the installer is not prepared to give an full and honest account.
Sorry to say, but although the vast majority of installers do a great job, there are those that don't, just like in any business, sadly I came across a bad apple.
 

ShaunCorbs

Staff member
S. Mod
Plumber
Gas Engineer
Messages
30,341
Solutions
1
I’m guessing you’ve either had to pay for said boiler or buy a new one ?
 

SweetWilliam

Messages
17
I’m guessing you’ve either had to pay for said boiler or buy a new one ?
Hi Shaun,
Yeah, that is the question.
Not many installation firms wanting to sort this job out.
How about just detailing your actual problem rather than ***** footing around.

At the minute it looks like you are looking for ammunition against an installer without giving the full details.

Always 2 sides to a story.
I believe that I have.
If the installer accepts that they have sized and fitted the wrong boiler then losses involved shouldn't be an issue for the customer, thats solely for the installer to worry about.

The installer would have 2 options,
Sell the boiler at a loss, for someone else to fit.
Assuming they have a suitable job for it, then provide it at a reduced price to the customer on the basis it's been fitted (but not used?) before.
Thank you snowhead, you seem to have understood the problem....

SimonG, it is interesting that you think seeking to be informed by an open forum of experts is ammunition.....

I simply wanted to know if the new (fitted but not used) boiler could be un-installed and used on another job. It seems completely unnecessary to simply dispose of it - a wasted resource. I wanted to know this as a point of interest more than anything else.

F.Y.I
As it happens, the installer kind of accepted that they sized and fitted the wrong boiler, but rather than halt the job and revert to the client (me) they decided to carry on with the installation. But given the original hole would have breached the maximum flue length limit (and that they accept that this would have been against the manufacturer's instructions), they bore another hole in the gable-end (of the Grade II listed building) and brought the flue terminal exit point 1.5m closer to the boiler.

In taking this step, they accept that they made a material change to what was agreed.

In order to rectify this, my thought was that at the point where they realised their mistake, they could have removed the new (fitted but not used) boiler and replaced it with say a Worcester that does meet with the job spec in that they support longer flues. It is accepted that there would have been some loss to the installer, maybe selling off the boiler at a reduced price, but the overall situation could have been resolved reasonably well from both parties perspective.

As an aside, the new flue hole now terminates over a boundary, so in truth, the installation is in fact non-compliant to Building Regs, manufacturer's instructions, breaches my lease agreement :(

And it was so unnecessary on so many fronts.
 

SimonG

Esteemed
Plumber
Messages
20,515
Ah an answer at last.

Then why scatter your questions over multiple posts, could be classed as spam.

Now ask the installer to join the forum and let's hear the other side.

Generally find the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
 

oz-plumber

Esteemed
Plumber
Messages
3,024
How long was the flue run?

I don't think I would agree to a job and then change the agreed flue location to another, because the boiler I specified couldn't handle the flue length.

It's not a hard task to read up on boilers maximum flue length.

If the installer has done anything non-compliant, they should rectify what is non-compliant and repair any damage caused.
 

SimonG

Esteemed
Plumber
Messages
20,515
How long was the flue run?

I don't think I would agree to a job and then change the agreed flue location to another, because the boiler I specified couldn't handle the flue length.

It's not a hard task to read up on boilers maximum flue length.

If the installer has done anything non-compliant, they should rectify what is non-compliant and repair any damage caused.

Or the installer could have been asked to move the boiler at some point? We'll never know with only one side of the discussion.
 

SweetWilliam

Messages
17
How long was the flue run?

I don't think I would agree to a job and then change the agreed flue location to another, because the boiler I specified couldn't handle the flue length.

It's not a hard task to read up on boilers maximum flue length.

If the installer has done anything non-compliant, they should rectify what is non-compliant and repair any damage caused.
Thanks.
After all we all make mistakes. Best to fess-up otherwise things come back to bite you.
The flue run, along the gable-end wall is 5+ m but there are two 90 degree bends, each bend reducing the available length by 1m.
The bite is that fixing the problem is quite difficult because the hole was made at height.... and requires a cherry picker, road closure, traffic lights etc
The constructive replies on here are appreciated.
 

SweetWilliam

Messages
17
Ah an answer at last.

Then why scatter your questions over multiple posts, could be classed as spam.

Now ask the installer to join the forum and let's hear the other side.

Generally find the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Will I find it somewhere amongst these photos, do you think?
 

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