British Gas and their fascination with Power Flush...

[asadm]

Let me start by expressing that I am a complete layman when it comes to plumbing but am in need of some professional advice. I have had a British Gas (BG)Maintenance Plan for almost 4 years and as part of this they are responsible for the annual maintenance/Service of my system. I recently encountered an issue with my system and when I called upon BG, they advised me that my system has sludge and they do not cover that as part of their contract and I can pay them £600 to have this removed through a Power Flush. I then sought independent advice and have arrived at the conclusion that the reason for this sludge is due to corrosion of the system (seems like a natural reaction when water, iron and air are mixed). I understand that this can be prevented through an annual system drain down and application of inhibitor. It can be further improved by the use of magnetic filters. I stressed to BG that this has neither ever been carried out by BG or advised to me. BG responded by stating that this is not part of their routine service policies.

In conclusion, I feel that it is unacceptable that I am being charged a premium amount for the maintenance of my system by a reputable company such as BG and yet this has never been carried out or deemed necessary. Not including this step for many years will inevitably lead to sludge in my opinion, which BG then subsequently demand a exorbitant amount to resolve. If my assumptions are true then surely the sludge is due to negligence on the part of BG. Can you please help me with this by clarifying whether I have a case to pursue against BG in this situation and whether this is an issue of their making? Appreciate your help with this.

 

[SimonG]

No case, BG will have it well covered in the 'small print'. Get a price off your independant for the installation of a centramag filter.

 

[asadm]

Thanks SimonG but isn't it a case of reasonableness especially when it goes beyond BG to a regulator or even the courts and on this basis isn't the draindown and inhibitor a reasonable part of any service? Also, without inhibitor isn't it just a recipe to result in sludge? Incidentally, I have now had it Power Flushed and a magnet filter fitted by a local plumber

 

[stoker122]

What was the issue you reported to them?

 

[stoker122]

Unless the system is already clean, adding inhibitor won't help.

 

[asadm]

I reported that my heating was very weak and the hot water was intermittent. As a result of the Power Flush that I have now done, everything is operational again.

 

[asadm]

yes, but isn't that the point. The system wasn't clean because it hasn't been maintained and as a customer I would have expected this as part of the service I am paying for.

 

[stoker122]

BG just released their annual profits. There is a reason they make so much. The service contract they sold you will be tied up tight, if they had said at the start you should have a power flush to qualify would you have purchased the maintenance contract?
If homeowners put the money paid to BG in a high interest account after taking a (proper) service and any maintenance into account, most if them would have money left over.

 

[SimonG]

A drain down and refill isn't part of an annual service.

 

[asadm]

As it happens, I had a new boiler installed, follow by a Power Flush and then in came my stupidity and with it the start of the BG contract. I appreciate your point on their T&C's but on a point of reasonableness, is it acceptable to exclude drain down and inhibitor from an annual service? Or is this for instance unheard of when it comes to the maintenance of a system. Not knowing CH systems, I don't have a sense for the gravity of this.

 

[asadm]

Thanks SimonG. At risk of sounding like someone who is looking to hear what he wants to hear, I am struggling to reconcile this. If the drain down and inhibitor isn't part of an annual service, isn't sludge the logical conclusion? For instance, if BG have been maintaining a system for 10 years on this basis, is it not almost certainly going to be affected by sludge? Finally, if an average consumer is paying for a maintenance service, does this seem like an acceptable omission? Surely, they don't expect us mere mortals to understand the implications of this and have this done by a separate plumber but pay them for everything else....or perhaps they do?

 

[stoker122]

A full drain down and refill is not required any way. A sample of water can be tested (if the type of inhibitor is know) to check for the active ingredient. If this is low inhibitor can be added without draining down by injecting it into a rad.
This is not required as part of an annual service, it is just best practice.
We offer our customers this as an extra to the service.
If the boiler was only recently fitted and was installed along with a power flush, there may be unresolved issues causing the sludging.

 

[stoker122]

BG is a money making machine, not the benchmark service many folk still believe.
Why warn you early when they can charge you later?

 

[Ray Stafford]

If the drain down and inhibitor isn't part of an annual service, isn't sludge the logical conclusion?

No.

In fact, it would probably make it worse (the drain down part).

The key is to start with a clean system, with inhibitor in, and then to prevent the loss of the inhibited water, or the ingress of either air, or new water containing dissolved air. A magnetic filter helps a lot by getting rid of any residual rubbish in the system, and trapping the relatively small amount of sludge that will form in even a perfect system.

All water contains a degree of dissolved oxygen, which is relevant in the formation of sludge deposits. However, any given volume of water has a finite amount of air dissolved in it, which can only create a finite amount of sludge. Constant replacement of system water (with the fresh oxygen it brings) is the worst possible thing for encouraging sludge to build up.

It is desirable to test the system water for inhibitor periodically, but even that is often impractical, since all the chemical manufacturers use different formulations, and there is no unified test which will pick them all up - therefore you have a very strong chance of a false negative.

Some large scale landlords specify that only a single manufacturers inhibitor may be used in their properties, to deal with this point.

 

[Howsie]

Careful Ray, you're starting to sound like you know what you're talking about.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Careful Ray, you're starting to sound like you know what you're talking about.

Can't be having that. People might start expecting me to work for a living...

 

[asadm]

Can't be having that. People might start expecting me to work for a living...

Thanks for all the help guys. The conclusion I am starting to reach is that BG possibly have no case to answer and I should stop sobbing and accept that a Power Flush was necessary....

 

[TBServices]

Thanks for all the help guys. The conclusion I am starting to reach is that BG possibly have no case to answer and I should stop sobbing and accept that a Power Flush was necessary....

Unfortunately so, as much as I love bashing BG, I have to say, in this instance they've done nothing wrong. There may be a problem in your heating system that's leading to sludge, which ought to be checked out.

 

[Howsie]

Thanks for all the help guys. The conclusion I am starting to reach is that BG possibly have no case to answer and I should stop sobbing and accept that a Power Flush was necessary....

You're better off spending your money with your local guy!

 

[bewsh]

Ye to be fair, no company will drain down and add inhibitor on an annual service. And their T&C's will be pretty bullet proof. That's what happens when people don't read the small print, and we're all guilty of not reading T&C's!

 

[AWheating]

you would have got a flush for half the price BG charge from a local plumber, probably the boiler change too...... wont be done by an engineer in a blue van tho.

 

[jase158]

agree with everything said, but think about the day when you loose your job, no money coming in and your boiler breaks down, you'll wish you had BG cover then!!

 

[TBServices]

agree with everything said, but think about the day when you loose your job, no money coming in and your boiler breaks down, you'll wish you had BG cover then!!

I'd argue you could put the same amount of money in a savings account every month, accrue some interest on that money and save it for a rainy day.

 

[jase158]

I'd argue you could put the same amount of money in a savings account every month, accrue some interest on that money and save it for a rainy day.

If you dont spend it in the mean time!!
depends on how good you are at saving and how much you think your boiler will break down,

"my boiler will never break down, i will spend that money on a new tv" next day boiler breaks down...

my point is, BG cover is good for some people not for others

 

[PatchettPlumbing]

As what has been said, BG is there for the profit and profit only. They don't care about customers like us small one bands do.

Really gets my back up!

 

[jase158]

As what has been said, BG is there for the profit and profit only. They don't care about customers like us small one bands do.

Really gets my back up!

True and they will wriggle out of the contract on small things, some smaller guys do service contracts, I would recommend these more then BG and I certainly will be doing service contracts hen I earn enough dough

 

[PatchettPlumbing]

I'm thinking of doing these contracts soon to be honest, but I'd offer a better service than BG do.

Amount of times I have been to customers where BG wouldn't fix it.

 

[villa_tom]

Offering service contracts is a risky risky business if you ask me. Say someone pays you twenty quid a month over a year, that equals £240. If that boilers PCB fails then there's your £240 gone then your working for free and probably losing money.

Plus you'd have to take BG's attitude towards things if you offered service contracts, would you really keep changing pump after pump on a system if you knew that it was sludge or a system defect making the pump fail?? I doubt you would.

Its easy to say that you'd do a better job than BG, but in reality when it comes down to your a business as they are and money is what everything comes down to.

 

[jase158]

Offering service contracts is a risky risky business if you ask me. Say someone pays you twenty quid a month over a year, that equals £240. If that boilers PCB fails then there's your £240 gone then your working for free and probably losing money.

Plus you'd have to take BG's attitude towards things if you offered service contracts, would you really keep changing pump after pump on a system if you knew that it was sludge or a system defect making the pump fail?? I doubt you would.

Its easy to say that you'd do a better job than BG, but in reality when it comes down to your a business as they are and money is what everything comes down to.

but you put it against the people who dont claim for 3 years!!

 

[villa_tom]

but you put it against the people who dont claim for 3 years!!

Those people are few and far between though mate. Even if you go to a repair and don't use any parts it's still costing you time and you could end up being run ragged. It obviously does work as there are many companies doing it, but I think I has to be done a large scale to make it profitable.

 

[zzzjim]

British Gas (BG)Maintenance Plan...have read similar posts

wriggle out clause is similar to "water not included"

(Reminded me of Xmas toys- without Batteries + Message on Box)

 

[tamz]

I agree with Tom. Service contracts are a numbers game and a big risk to independents. Spending a Saturday afternoon in the bookies betting favourites with your weekly takings would probably give you better odds of surviving.

Rather than put a plaster on it i'd fix the underlying problem.

 

[petercj]

BG do a system check, including a water check, before they accept the system on contract.

They advertise that the contract includes a service, but just do a gas check - 20 minutes and they're gone.

Money for old rope.

 

[Mike Jackson]

I agree with Tom. Service contracts are a numbers game and a big risk to independents. Spending a Saturday afternoon in the bookies betting favourites with your weekly takings would probably give you better odds of surviving.

I agree with this. Some years ago we (family business) were asked if we could provide this sort of thing for a local housing association for around 500 properties. They were after an all singing all dancing contract that covered all CH repairs. We looked at what had been spent on maintaining the systems over the previous couple of years and found a couple that had cost over a grand to put right. You only need one of those to lose all of the profit on a small contract. Service contracts are a numbers game to spread the risk and you've got to tie it down really tight to avoid the expensive calls. You then end up being more expensive than BG for the same poor cover.