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Discuss Brand New To Forum Hoping For Help in the Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice area at PlumbersForums.net

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Best

Esteemed
Plumber
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10,001
I don't mean to be rude and of course shoot myself in the foot but isn't the point of me taking all this time to open an account here, make a fun avatar, start a long thread that took me a few hours to put together, be, so that someone with knowledge in return, imparts some to me lol??

How would you do it without draining the system, is it by freezing the pipes?

And what are you referring to in the last paragraph. The Conet rad valves. Are you telling me to not use them and are they the valves for the radiator?

I would of course be in a better position to pay a plumber but have had a bad run with tradesmen and am currently refusing to have anymore in. The last one flooded my house and now I don't have the money anyway to pay anyone.

Unless you live in pompey and or are happy to do it out of good will, the next best option is to help me here :)

but I understand your knowledge has been earned and shouldn't be given away free which then asks, what is the point in this forum for DIY enthusiasts?

Anyway I appreciate your response and thanks for taking the time to respond. You didn't have to.

The old valves are Conet and probably not made any more. You really just need decent replacement thermostatic valves on most of the radiators and also replace the other side. You can get TRV with a lockshield packs of rad valves.
I do not freeze pipes, but do it a different method, but you will be best to just drain the lot, as Last Plumber said. I don't want to have you getting into bother and causing water damage.
I would have had all your valves replaced quicker than you typed your post no doubt, but I have been doing that sort of work regularly.
It is a shame you haven't found a plumber you have confidence with. It doesn't surprise me, but there will be some good plumbers out there if you keep trying.
 
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Looking at the last set of pics Carlton, I am fairly sure that the pipe you labelled 'Heating valve' is not for the Heating. I suspect it is a cold feed to something. I may be wrong because I'm going off photographs.

You need to look in the loft for an isolation from the F+E tank or, drain the heating after you have turned the mains water off.

It is - as everyone is saying - a very easy job for a Plumber and you would be best advised to employ one. However, if you would rather try it yourself, that's fair enough.

The Gentleman (@Best ), who said he could do it without draining down has a wealth of experience on his side. I personally think you would be safer draining it off if you're inexperienced at Plumbing.
No offence meant, it's just that if it went wrong it could make a mess.

What do you think would be a good way to go about checking?

If I turn the heating system on and the pipe gets hot, would that be a good sign its not a cold feed and if doesn't get hot it is more likely as you say, a cold feed (which is probably right).

Seems like a hell of a mess of pipes lol

I agree I was probably more curious about his method. Being somewhat of an autodidact has that effect.

When I drain down in the next cpl days, I'll make sure I turn the whole system off.

Will be great if I can avoid getting into the loft but I also know that adding Inhibitor is easiest done in the tank, although apparently not as good as adding it to the rad itself.

I will have 5 radiators to do in total so I can see the drain down being done several times, over a few days. Probably best to add the inhibitor at the end when I'm done.

Thanks a lot for your responses.
 
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The old valves are Conet and probably not made any more. You really just need decent replacement thermostatic valves on most of the radiators and also replace the other side. You can get TRV with a lockshield packs of rad valves.
I do not freeze pipes, but do it a different method, but you will be best to just drain the lot, as Last Plumber said. I don't want to have you getting into bother and causing water damage.
I would have had all your valves replaced quicker than you typed your post no doubt, but I have been doing that sort of work regularly.
It is a shame you haven't found a plumber you have confidence with. It doesn't surprise me, but there will be some good plumbers out there if you keep trying.

Thanks for the info. I agree with you 100%, it will be the safest option to do as you say.

Again it really is a case of money. Paying someone £100 I don't have when i'm saving that for a 3d printer seems like an impossible choice.

Besides it will be nice to be more like my dad who seems to be able to fix anything, including pipes, electric, cars, you name it. Mans got to be a man so to speak.

Im hoping you guys will help guide me as I go. I will keep you up to date with whats going on and it may come down to slipping you a drink over PayPal for a bit of face time if I get really stuck.

I was going to go with these valves as a replacement although I know 'Last plumber' recommended another brand, I haven't looked into those yet but will do in a min.

What do you guys rec?

They are £10 for a pack including lock shield.
Screen Shot 2018-02-21 at 22.38.13.png

Altech Angled TRV with L/S Valve 15mm White Pk 2 - Radiator Valves & Accessories | Graham

The only reservation I have with these is that they only work from 7 degrees upwards. Although none seem to work below 0 degrees. I guess it's no big deal as you would rarely set your rads to below 10 anyway right?

Also do you have any better recommendations for TRV packs off the top of your head?

And lastly (sorry) the adjustable side on the radiator I pictured is on the right hand side, which seems a little odd and annoying since it puts it into a corner, which would mean its ability to read a room temp accurately will be greatly diminished. Can I swap the sides over? (I'm going to assume the answer is no and bring about some merriment from ppl who know even the basics of pluming, which I clearly don't lol).

Thanks in advance.
 
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I would only use a decent make like Danfoss.
Screen Shot 2018-02-21 at 22.52.34.png

I found these for £15, nice looking and perhaps as you say, good quality. Certainly look a little better than the Graham own brand i listed above.

Danfoss RAS-C2 straight TRV and lockshield pack 15mm | Plumb Center

I also need to check my pipes are 15mm.

Ahh (edit to post) I just noticed the adjuster seems to be hanging off the side of the pipe work. TRV's should be fitted horizontally for the best temp read away from the rad but I also don't see the shield in this pic. Will need to look into this.

I have heard some say that having the adjuster horizontally makes it easier to get knocked and thus leak.

Your thoughts?

2nd edit, I don't think these are right for me, they seem like what you might call 'in line' as in the pipe is horizontal to the radiator not vertical like mine.

I will try to find others fro this company.
 
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gmartine

Gas Engineer
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1,630
Redecorate the wall, clean up those radiator valves with metal polish ( or even respray them with a chrome spray) and then at a later date (summer?) employ somebody who'll have the right tools and who knows what they are doing. It's a relatively small job that shouldn't cost too much in labour and you've already wasted hours posting here already. As very practical folks that are used to problem solving we get a sense of a persons ability and it would be fair to say given your posts and the responses given that no-one else has a great deal of confidence in your ability either. Please take heed of the advice given and get someone in if you insist on renewing those radiator valves, if you get yourself into trouble what we fear most is your ability to get yourself out of it.
 

Best

Esteemed
Plumber
Messages
10,001
The Altech valves pack are inexpensive and in my opinion as nice looking as any valve and seem good enough quality. They are also fully compatible with most other high chromed standard valves, so easy to swap the valve bodies in the future.
I have installed some of same valves and so am speaking from my experience of them. Time will tell if they last well.
The Danfoss valves are a well known top quality brand and probably a good choice. Note that the Danfoss bodies are not the same as normal valves, plus pipes depth of Danfoss valves are less, so wouldn’t be just a direct swap to another brand body if ever needed.
 
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jtsplumbing

Plumber
Gas Engineer
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5,738
Another quick tip if you cant get the old nuts & olives off the pipe you could check to see if new valves fit the old nuts quite often they do so if your happy to leave the old nuts/olives in place do that.
 
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Redecorate the wall, clean up those radiator valves with metal polish ( or even respray them with a chrome spray) and then at a later date (summer?) employ somebody who'll have the right tools and who knows what they are doing. It's a relatively small job that shouldn't cost too much in labour and you've already wasted hours posting here already. As very practical folks that are used to problem solving we get a sense of a persons ability and it would be fair to say given your posts and the responses given that no-one else has a great deal of confidence in your ability either. Please take heed of the advice given and get someone in if you insist on renewing those radiator valves, if you get yourself into trouble what we fear most is your ability to get yourself out of it.

I appreciate your concern and for now I am going to fix the wall and pop the radiator back on, hopefully without leaks (having disturbed other joins along the chain).

However I would like to teach myself some plumbing and that is why I'm here.
You claim I'm wasting my time writing but it's only because you aren't giving me any information. You are essentially creating a self fore-filling prophecy.

Perhaps the best way for me to not waste my time and for you to not waste yours in turn, would be to help teach me how not to, get into a bad situation.
So for example, you could tell me, drain the system first, that will stop flooding.
Putting a hose on a drain valve that is controlled prior to its fitting by the valve on a radiator and at worse shutting off the mains riser and if that doesn't work, having the mains in the road ready to be switched off, is a sensible approach to not flooding my house.

I mean how many more things in a chain have to go wrong before even a pro plumber will be panicking? I mean all of them would have to simultaneously have to go wrong, including the street valve malfunctioning. I think that's highly unlikely.

If I get to the point where I cannot turn off the mains in the road, then what would a plumber do anyway, apart from have insurance, which I already have.

It's not like Im trying to take off the mains riser tap here or install new valves in my airing cupboard. Im simply trying to take off a radiator and change the valves.

Im good at picking up information, Im careful in what I do and I watch hours of youtube videos and read tons of stuff before doing so. If I think something is too risky, I wont do it.

Everyone else here is being pretty damn helpful and have already given me due warning and probably sage advice on getting a pro as part of their input.

If you still think I'm missing anything then with respect, please help me by telling me.

Regards.
 
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The Altech valves pack are inexpensive and in my opinion as nice looking as any valve and seem good enough quality. They are also fully compatible with most other high chromed standard valves, so easy to swap the valve bodies in the future.
I have installed some of same valves and so am speaking from my experience of them. Time will tell if they last well.
The Danfoss valves are a well known top quality brand and probably a good choice. Note that the Danfoss bodies are not the same as normal valves, plus pipes depth of Danfoss valves are less, so wouldn’t be just a direct swap to another brand body if ever needed.

Interesting!

The bodies do look a little different. I am aware that the piece that goes into the radiator needs to be as close to the valve body as possible to get the best seal. I will buy both sets and offer them up, or take measurements of the length and reach (into radiator) of both.

I actually prefer the more high chrome look of the first choice over the slightly duller look of the latter although will compare internals and warranties. The Danfoss only offer 2 year but have copper inserts.

Thank you very much for this info. Very helpful.
 
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Another quick tip if you cant get the old nuts & olives off the pipe you could check to see if new valves fit the old nuts quite often they do so if your happy to leave the old nuts/olives in place do that.


Great tip JTS but those nuts look pretty bad. I have tried cleaning them up with wire wool and didn't get much success. They seem to have pitted in places beyond repair (for decorative purposes).

The olive is going to be the real bugger on this, I know it but I think I will be able to get them off without damaging the pipe, if I'm careful.

If I do have to cut the pipe I am correct in assuming I can simply lower the radiator by an equal distance or do radiators need to all sit a certain height?

Would be interested to know. Although I could probably simply go upstairs and measure the height of them all lol

It's funny how much you can work out by simply typing the question. Once the idea gets out of your head and onto paper (paper lol), the answer becomes much more obvious, or at least a solution to it.

Regards.
 

Riley

S. Mod
Plumber
Gas Engineer
Messages
10,783
Those TRV packs are ok. Will do the job. You don’t want them turning down to zero as this is frost protection should temperatures really plummet. As long as the valves are bidirectional it doesn’t matter which way you have them round
 
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