Boiler replacement

[Bengie]

Hi all. We have at present a Biasi M96.24 which has been with us since jesus was born and it's now time to replace it.
We have been told that the one fitted now is no longer made so will have to have a different model.

We want another Biasi as we have had no problem with it until now.
My question is (the wifes question is) how much mess will they make,
Can you say if another Biasi will be a direct replacement ie are the pipes in the same order so it will be a case of one out and one in
or will the plumber have to cut and reroute / rearrange the pipework that goes into and out of the boiler?

I hope that makes sense.

 

[Gasmk1]

more than likeley a one out one in but if you want a biasi dont expect any glowing recomendations of them.

 

[Bengie]

Thank you so much for that. I will just have to be my own recommendation in that case, had had this one
for so long and without problem that is why I would chose another.

 

[townfanjon]

The very early Biasi’s were bullet proof as for the new ones , erm not so good .
As for any mess , of course there will be some , but a good guy will take the correct measures to limit this.

 

[Brambles]

Bengie,

If your experience is based on a condensing Biasi, all well and good. My advice is don’t expect a current model condensing Biasi to compare with an earlier non-condensing model - they are very different boilers (other than the name)

 

[SimonG]

The problem is that new boilers are not a patch on the solid old ones. I'm busy stopping customers who have old Worcester heatslave oil boilers from changing to new. Just no comparison.

I don't do gas, but biasi get a bad reputation for a reason.

Look at boilers that are recommended, especially with the long warrantys. Just check small print for what you need to do to maintain the warranty.

 

[oz-plumber]

Side note.

I still am amazed at some of the boilers that I installed 20 odd years ago are still working.
I have been to 2 jobs this week that I don't think I have ever serviced since they were installed.
Both were in original condition.
1 needed a new combustion fan and the other a new pump.
The pump was a standard 25-60, which I had ( must have been floating around the van for 3 odd years) because they are rarely used anymore inside boilers.

Just makes me feel old

 

[centralheatking]

Thank you so much for that. I will just have to be my own recommendation in that case, had had this one
for so long and without problem that is why I would chose another.

I admire your loyalty but read the above, on many older boilers
by typically reliable manufacturers the goal posts have moved,
build quality and component standard compromised on the contemporary models. By all means
carry on, please can you report back your experience as this helps us
to advise others. centralheatking

 

[Dan]

Done some housekeeping in this thread. It got a bit sour there. Shall we try again?

 

[Harvest Fields]

Thanks Dan. Didn’t mean for it to go that way.

 

[Deleted member 32524]

All manufacturers have issues with products. We can all think of top to bottom boilers that one thing or another is a weak spot or a design issue accessing parts. None of these modern boilers are as indestructible as their predecessors. They are better in terms of performance. IMO look after the water in the heating circuit after a thoroughly cleaned system and you will really help a modern boiler stay alive for longer. Magnetic filter and to back that up a deaerator. One gathering any missed magnetite from system and the other unwanted air. Also things do change and Vaillant, Worcester, Baxi, all do good boilers with long warranty. Depends on your budget, are gas line upgrade required etc I suppose. Expect mess, but precautions taken to minimise exposure, like roll and stroll, clearing your feet around you as you go with a big tidy up at the end.

 

[Knappers]

I wouldn't fit a biasi. I have about 20 on a maintenance schedule, my heart always sinks when it comes time to service them, fitting a new pcb was an experience to say the least!
Not exaggerating, if a customer demanded a biasi I'd recommend another engineer and loose the job.
Ideal or Main/baxi are good cost effective boilers IMO.

 

[Bengie]

I'm hiding behind the sofa while I type this because I have had a Biasi replacement.

Everything went smoothly but as the boiler is a bit smaller than the other one, it was a case of extend the pipework or lower the hole for the flue (horizontal), my choice and I said make the hole in the wall bigger and that's the way it went, it lined up exactly with all the pipework and now just have to fill in around the flue.

Sorry I've gone this way against the advice of some but I promise I will pop back now and then and let you know good or bad.

Just one thing on the water, I'm in Plymouth and our water is very soft so that has to have helped with the life of the old one.

My problem was the diverter valve, would you recommend I have that replaced/repaired and keep hold of it just in case ?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

They won’t be using the same parts so bin

And aslong as your happy that is all what matters in the end

 

[centralheatking]

Well done brave man, and by all means strip your old boiler down. Please keep up,with us we do much more than postulate on boilers
centralheatking. by taking the old one apart you can learn just how simple they really are !!

 

[Bengie]

thanks Shaun, it's not just a case of me being happy, if someone had said 'don't use Biasi because ....' that would have given me something to consider. You're the experts, not me.
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And thanks CH, I will take a look around all the section to see what wets my appetite.

 

[Deleted member 32524]

No need to apologise. Hope it is as reliable as your old one for you.

 

[Danny1]

Personally baxi most manufacturers have there highs and lows but I’d go for a baxi for reliability and build quality

 

[OffshoreGas]

thanks Shaun, it's not just a case of me being happy, if someone had said 'don't use Biasi because ..' that would have given me something to consider. You're the experts, not me.
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And thanks CH, I will take a look around all the section to see what wets my appetite.

Hopefully a big saving in your fuel bill with s new appliance.

Only word of caution if you fancy stripping it down is maybe wear a dust mask and nitrile gloves if you want to poke about in the combustion chamber. Combustion products can be carcinogenic and some really old stuff may have asbestos in gaskets.

 

[Bengie]

All up and running and I thought I would pop back in and give you an update.

After installation the thermostatic shower failed so £180 later a new one is fitted only to confirm that there was nothing wrong with the old one, it was the bloody boiler. £180 is a lot for a pensioner to fork out.
The temp would drop to almost cold and then return, not something you would expect the boiler to be doing.

There is no timeclock fitted as standard and the one Biasi recommended was a crap manual one with a thousand pegs to set. Ok once set fine, but no, there is no manual over-ride so if the weather improves you can only disable the heating by turning off the whole boiler so no hot water.

That would be the same in the warmer weather if there was a cold snap you couldn't just go and turn on the heating.
I have now got one with an over-ride but it's the same piece of rubbish with a million pegs and the tiniest of pegs for constant / off / timed.

Although it is all working fine now, I cannot say I'm happy, in fact I think I would go as far as to say this boiler is a piece of crap and 50 years behind my old boiler that had an lcd clock and electronic time setting facility and control.

Although I am a pensioner, in a year or two when I can afford it, I will replace this boiler, it just doesn't fill me with confidence and I want a wall thermostat and I don't think there is one available for this boiler, well Biasi said no when I asked them, perhaps you guys know better?

I will be coming back here before the event this time and asking for recommendations.

 

[oz-plumber]

Hi Bengie,

There has to be a wall thermostat that is compatible for that boiler.

Give it some time on here - someone will get you sorted.

Oz

 

[Bengie]

Another update and this one is no better than my previous.

Flash it up on a cold winters morning and the radiators heat up pretty quick, the short time that took surprised us.
However, when the heating is off and it's just hot water needed, that can take in excess of five minutes to reach the
set temperature, until then it's only warm and nowhere near hot enough for a wash and shave or to do the dishes.

This really is disappointing and if I wasn't overjoyed with the boiler before, I'm even less so now. They really have
taken a big step backwards probably with a view to saving as much as possible and making them cheaper than others.

I can't afford to replace it on my pension just yet, so when the credit card is paid back, I will definitely be in the market
for a different one and won't count the pennies this time.

I definitely wouldn't recommend a Biasi now that I have had a modern experience of one. Not a patch on their
older models.

This one will be up for sale, lets hope a prospective buyer don't read this

I will be back for some suggestions when the time comes.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Another update and this one is no better than my previous.

Flash it up on a cold winters morning and the radiators heat up pretty quick, the short time that took surprised us.
However, when the heating is off and it's just hot water needed, that can take in excess of five minutes to reach the
set temperature, until then it's only warm and nowhere near hot enough for a wash and shave or to do the dishes.

This really is disappointing and if I wasn't overjoyed with the boiler before, I'm even less so now. They really have
taken a big step backwards probably with a view to saving as much as possible and making them cheaper than others.

I can't afford to replace it on my pension just yet, so when the credit card is paid back, I will definitely be in the market
for a different one and won't count the pennies this time.

I definitely wouldn't recommend a Biasi now that I have had a modern experience of one. Not a patch on their
older models.

This one will be up for sale, lets hope a prospective buyer don't read this

I will be back for some suggestions when the time comes.

Sounds like it's more of an installation problem and maybe your engineer than a boiler issue?

I fitted a Biasi just before xmas for an office. They wanted cheap, and tbh I was rather impressed with it. Couldn't stick your hand under the hot water it was that good!

If it's a boiler fault well it'll be under warranty - so get Biasi out. 5 Years on them I believe.

Controls - You'll be able to get an external control for it. That isn't an issue at all.

They are a cheap boiler but all the ones i've fitted work absolutely fine.

 

[Brambles]

Is this a combi Biasi? If so, I would be looking at the cold water inlet flow rate before blaming the boiler.

Your installer should have checked and discussed this with you when specifying the installation before you committed to it.

You need to hold him / her to account.

My experience of Biasi boilers is that they get poor reviews (like Vokera) but, in my experience, they are generally ok. Personally, I don’t like them. Manufacturers make mistakes but they generally don’t continue to sell poor performing boilers into the market and offer long warranties.

If in doubt call Biasi out - they will either fix the issue or tell you where the problem lies. In the past, with a Vokera combi boiler, I have seen one fitted to an insufficient gas supply. Heating was fine, but the boiler could not achieve full capacity to deliver hot water to specification.

If the issue is indeed incoming flow rate I suggest that you look at an accumulator or pumped accumulator to resolve the problem once and for all.

 

[Bengie]

It was all a simple disconnect and reconnect as everything lined up perfectly with the old boiler.
The water hasn't been changed at all and I didn't see him check anything except the gas pressure and other things.

I can see if there is a problem why it wasn't picked up at the install as the heating was running so the hot water
came through immediately, it's just weird that without the heating the hot water fails to reach a decent temperature.

I will give him a ring after the weekend, he is very obliging and will come to take a look. I will mention the cold
water input was suggested as a possible problem.

Thanks all.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

It was all a simple disconnect and reconnect as everything lined up perfectly with the old boiler.
The water hasn't been changed at all and I didn't see him check anything except the gas pressure and other things.

I can see if there is a problem why it wasn't picked up at the install as the heating was running so the hot water
came through immediately, it's just weird that without the heating the hot water fails to reach a decent temperature.

I will give him a ring after the weekend, he is very obliging and will come to take a look. I will mention the cold
water input was suggested as a possible problem.

Thanks all.

As Brambles has said sounds like it might be an issue with the cold water inlet flow rate. Especially if it's only a 24kw boiler.

Also gas pressures need checking and gas rate doing - again if it's 24kw and it's only burning 20kw on HW then your HW performance is going to be poor.

Could also be a faulty diverter valve in the boiler itself.

 

[Bengie]

What superb and professional replies, thanks guys.

I will have a try at just turning on the tap slowly and see what happens but can't do that at the moment as have the
heating on. You tend to feel the cold more as you get older.

He did spend quite some time checking the gas with with some gear, and I remember that as being nosey I wondered what
he was doing and asked him.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Does the boiler have a pre heat option?

 

[Bengie]

Does the boiler have a pre heat option?

That's what it needed, had a look through the user manual and have enabled the 'pre heat' and problem solved.

Thanks Shaun.
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