Boiler installation nightmare - advice

[bwerd1]

All advice appreciated. I've made a number of bad decisions & trying to stop the flow.

I used a small plumbing company (one man band but supplies all trades) that had installed two bathrooms for me previously with satisfactory results.

Therefore, I had a combi boiler installed last week (replacing unvented potterton suprima 50) where he replaced radiators & introduced a heating engineer for the boiler & revised pipework.

Mostly paid in cash on completion but I did pay the heating engineers employer for the goods (boiler etc) & he has used his employers details to register the installation & warranty.

I had a number of growing concerns so arranged for independent inspection by another heating engineer & he has issue a Do not use certificate for a number of reasons:
- PRV not terminated (not pipework installed & currently located directly above live switch)
- Flue not correctly installed (not 300mm from window) & not sealed on inside (packed with paper towels)
- Live electrical connection exposed.
- Boiler pipework surrounds live switches. Switches should be moved away from pipework / underneath boiler.

There are additional issued (e.g. dripping pipework x 2), poor electrical work & kitchen wall burned badly from soldering.

On advice of independent engineer, he advised to call Gas Safe informally & they advised to contact the installers employer. This has been done & they are not interested in rectifying. Silence is deafening from plumbing company & installer.

Independent engineer advised to log formally with Gas Safe and that has been done online today. I have taken lots of photos as evidence.

I have since learned from searching the forum (I think) that if his employer did not given him permission & he does not have his own licence, it looks like this might be classed as an illegal install?

Apart from waiting for Gas Safe to get in contact, what should I do if he turns up? It seems doubtful this will happen but want to be prepared. Do I refuse entry if he doesn't have his own licence?

The only plus point is I have a high level of confidence in the independent engineer, who I think will rectify the issues, even if I have to pay for this. Obviously, his current advice is to let Gas Safe do their job & log the issues. I'm not sure how quickly they respond to this type of complaint. In the meantime, we have no heating or hot water but better than something worse going wrong.

I'd really appreciate any advice. Its very stressful & its confusing (to me) what is covered by gas safe & what is not.

Thanks

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Turn up at his place of employment and ask to see the boss might not you anywhere but may if he’s decent

 

[bwerd1]

Thanks for the reply. I have had contact with his employer / boss via telephone & current position is ‘it’s nothing to do with them’. Hence, independent engineer advised formal gas safe route as next step, given engineer and / or employer (reasonably sized local EPC company - not just boilers) are not taking any action to rectify. I’m guessing but if his employer are not taking any responsibility & he has no licence to operate as individual, he would only make his position worse to attempt to resolve himself.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Has he registered it yet ? / paperwork to prove this

 

[bwerd1]

Has he registered it yet ? / paperwork to prove this

Boiler paperwork (written in pen) for boiler is using his employers name, address & gas number.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I would email or written letter them then as it’s there install stating one of your employees installed a boiler and the install has been classed as dangerous and your getting gas safe evolved as your not happy as there liable for the install you either want all the faults correcting or a full refund

 

[bwerd1]

Thank you.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Forgot to add send them the independents engineers report as well

 

[Scott_D]

Its a confusing story and for me it sounds fishy.
Often a cheap job is that way for a reason and alarm bells should have been ringing at the situation
You paid a plumber cash who has got a gas engineer in to do the boiler part of the job?
You paid gas engineers employer for boiler and the boiler has been fitted in their name?
Has it been classed as At risk or Immedialty dangerous?

 

[bwerd1]

Its a confusing story and for me it sounds fishy.
Often a cheap job is that way for a reason and alarm bells should have been ringing at the situation
You paid a plumber cash who has got a gas engineer in to do the boiler part of the job?
You paid gas engineers employer for boiler and the boiler has been fitted in their name?
Has it been classed as At risk or Immedialty dangerous?

Yes - both and no argument it is 100% fishy from start to end. As I said, massive mistake has been made. ID (box no 2 ticked) & AR (box no 1 ticked) on danger do not use warning notice. Sticker applied to boiler, gas turned off & fuse removed from socket. Presumably for exposed electrical wire & no pipe work at all from PRV (short copper pipe 5cm unde boiler). Not sure if boiler pipe work around / over switches counts as AR but is mentioned on warning notice, as is flue <300mm from window & not sealed on inside of property.

Sorry, if it’s confusing. I accept its more than likely I have to pay to rectify. I’m just trying to follow the advice of the independent heating engineer who asked to report to gas safe before needing to engage him to rectify ( on the assumption this is treated as an illegal install & should not have been logged against the installers company).

This also the route advised informally via telephone call with Gas Safe. Contact his employer as install is logged against them. If they don’t accept responsibility, log formally with gas safe.

His employer is aware of the works as he got the boiler through his employers account and we paid his employer directly for the boiler. That’s our only point of contact with the company apart from the install paperwork being logged using their details / gas safe 6 digit number.

I just don’t know how long gas safe take to come out to inspect so we can move forward, irrespective of the cost. That’s the least of my worries at the moment.

 

[moonlight]

Unfortunately people want a cheap job. Paying someone cash to complete a job when they don't have their own gas ticket. Sorry but its asking for trouble. His employer sold you the boiler etc. all sounds a bit dodgy to me. I hope get it all sorted out. Make sure you check your boiler guarantee too.

 

[bwerd1]

Unfortunately people want a cheap job. Paying someone cash to complete a job when they don't have their own gas ticket. Sorry but its asking for trouble. His employer sold you the boiler etc. all sounds a bit dodgy to me. I hope get it all sorted out. Make sure you check your boiler guarantee too.

If only it was cheap. I went with them as had used the plumber twice previously for bathroom renovations but it was a big mistake. Price paid was similar to other quotes so I can't even console myself with the fact the the money saved can go towards rectification. Thanks for the reply.

 

[moonlight]

If only it was cheap. I went with them as had used the plumber twice previously for bathroom renovations but it was a big mistake. Price paid was similar to other quotes so I can't even console myself with the fact the the money saved can go towards rectification. Thanks for the reply.

Hope you get it sorted. You will have to get the other heating engineer to check and recommission.

 

[Scott_D]

What have you actually paid for the job?
What did you pay the employer for the boiler?
What did you get from the employer - boiler make, model, flue, any extras, did you get a receipt?
Can you post some
Pictures of the work done

 

[bwerd1]

Hope you get it sorted. You will have to get the other heating engineer to check and recommission.

Thanks. At the moment, the original installer will be refused entry to property unless his employer confirms he is working on their behalf to rectify as I now feel he isn't registered to do the work as an indiviudal. Hence, the silence.

Ignorance is no excuse and I'm not blameless. He did say he was registered through his employer to install boilers & I accepted this. The fact he ordered the parts using his employers account & I paid his employer directly via bank transfer to their business bank account on the day of installation gave me (false) reassurance that this would be a legal install & that he was competent. I was promised an invoice in my name, hence why I paid his employer direct. However, this promise came from the installer, not his employer.

In my own profession, I can work for my employer & myself under the same annual registration with my professional body so it just didn't occur to me gas regulations work in a different way. Again, my fault for not double checking.

I'm at the stage where I just want the inspection logged by Gas Safe as quickly as possible so its harder for this to happen to anyone else & then pay to rectify asap if necessary.

The additional cost is at the very bottom of my list of concerns at the moment.

Again, thanks for the best wishes & honest response. In future, I'll pay the window cleaner cash but that's about it.

 

[bwerd1]

Gas Safe inspection completed & report being prepared. Work was completed by Gas Safe Engineer but not registered to do work as an individual.

Paying different company to rectify faults.

 

[Ric2013]

Hang on. The OP paid money by bank transfer to a company which now claims this installation is nothing to do with it. Has the company refused the payment? Has the company confirmed in writing it is not involved?

Far as I'm concerned, if the company has passed this money on to the installer who commissioned the boiler, then it is involved (or it needs to refund the money).

 

[Scott_D]

Is there a list of faults found?

 

[Aquarius]

Not the best install, but, probably not the worst either.

Please do post the outcome if you’re able to.

 

[Murdoch]

I'm not sure we are being all the facts here ........

Why would anyone pay cash for a boiler install? madness

 

[Harvest Fields]

I'm not sure we are being all the facts here ******..

Why would anyone pay cash for a boiler install? madness

I get offered cash all the time. Always request bank transfers though.

 

[Ric2013]

I'm not sure we are being all the facts here ******..

Why would anyone pay cash for a boiler install? madness

To save bank charges? I paid for my van in cash. I object to letting the banks make 3% or whatever of my hard-earnt income for handling the money when the Bank of England does this for free.

If cash is paid as a way of allowing the worker to not declare the income and evade VAT and income tax, that is one thing (and is illegal). If, however, cash is merely used as a form of payment, there is nothing wrong with that.

It is unusual, though, I admit. Most people prefer the convenience of not having to withdraw cash at a hole-in-the-wall (after all, most people are paid electronically) and carry it around. It does seem especially unusual that the OP paid cash with invoice to follow, but seems he trusted the plumber enough to be happy doing so.

 

[gmartine]

Making a mess of solder ring is never a good sign.

 

[Ric2013]

Making a mess of solder ring is never a good sign.

Looking at those solder ring photos carefully actually suggests the plumber has added additional solder. Strange.

 

[bwerd1]

Gas Safe has been out & sent a report to HSE.

Four faults were listed under gas supply & seven under the boiler installatio.

It has been deemed an illegal installation as Gas Safe view is that the engineerr was working for the plumbing company I had used previously as a sub contractor & neither has a gas safe registration number. He should not have registered the boiler using his employers details. Payment to the gas engineers company is now stated as being for 'goods only'.

I've paid someone else to rectify & I'm just going to move on.

 

[WC1]

Looking at those solder ring photos carefully actually suggests the plumber has added additional solder. Strange.

I always tend to dab a bit on if I'm using a Yorkie. Not sure why.
(It's not my work btw)

 

[IND_Nick]

I always tend to dab a bit on if I'm using a Yorkie. Not sure why.
(It's not my work btw)

I do exactly the same, just dab at the back of fitting to check it is hot enough to pull all the way round. Never had an issue, but never let it run like photos above.

 

[Aquarius]

I’ve had solder ring fittings without solder on them, hence the need for adding solder.

 

[Jerry]

I always tend to dab a bit on if I'm using a Yorkie. Not sure why.
(It's not my work btw)

Me too.