Bulk Workwear - Workmans Clothing and Protective Gear
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Discuss Boiler condemned by British Gas in the Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice area at PlumbersForums.net

Plumbase Christmastime
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Harvest Fields

Esteemed
Plumber
Gas Engineer
Yes having a new one fitted. Im buying the parts so have to get a Worcester magnetic filter and that gives me an extra 2 years warranty !

Have also to get the boiler which is
Worcester Greenstar 34CDi Classic Combination Boiler Natural and flu pipe and a hive central heating controller !

Ive to goto cityplumbing and pay for it next week
You do not have to say, but did they give you a labour only quote ? Or a full install quote
 

ShaunCorbs

Staff member
S. Mod
Plumber
Gas Engineer
May I ask why your getting the parts
 
No probs in answering that.
The guy whos doing it for us has an account with them and said he will get an order number and pay it that way. getting him to do other things as well so he said he will give us the price that he gets it for which im more than delighted with.
Dont worry hes very well known and Gas safe
 

Harvest Fields

Esteemed
Plumber
Gas Engineer
No probs in answering that.
The guy whos doing it for us has an account with them and said he will get an order number and pay it that way. getting him to do other things as well so he said he will give us the price that he gets it for which im more than delighted with.
Dont worry hes very well known and Gas safe
Didn’t answer my question though?:D:D
 

firemant

Esteemed
Plumber
Gas Engineer
He has told me the price of the boiler and the labour cost :)
I have a friend who was a builder. He told his punters to go to the merchants and order and pay for materials at his trade price. They did not know that the order and payment was placed on his account. In fact, they paid more than hoss actual rate, and his account benefited from the balance.
OP:
But to get back to BG, was this "advice" ever in writing? If not, then I do not see how they could fall back on it. What were you being covered for, in return for your premiums, after the "advice".

Folk do not realise these contracts are insured based and governed by the Financial Conduct Authority. I would not take the bosses comments as gospel, especially if there is no instruction in writing.
 

Ric2013

Plumber
It's an easy way to get the customer to pay for parts upfront. In the light of instances of rogue customers, not a bad plan.

Only problem is that if there is a problem with the boiler, it might be very easy for a situation to develop in which the installer refers the customer to the supplier but the supplier will probably say that it's probably an installation issue and refer the customer to the supplier. Who is right? Does it matter? Customer could be stuck in the middle.
 
Unsure of the reason as to why he prefers me to do that. Either way im more than happy to do that plus his labour charge is less than other quotes i got, albeit the other company was alot bigger than this guy.

He is also doing it quicker for us which we are very grateful of as it was -2 this morning and my poor kids are freezing even with heaters scattered everywhere.
 
But to get back to BG, was this "advice" ever in writing? If not, then I do not see how they could fall back on it. What were you being covered for, in return for your premiums, after the "advice".

Folk do not realise these contracts are insured based and governed by the Financial Conduct Authority. I would not take the bosses comments as gospel, especially if there is no instruction in writing.
What had happened was that we had to keep resetting the boiler. It would then stay on for 3 or 4 days without any issues then after that it would go off maybe twice a day.

The 1st engineer said to my wife that he renewed some filters in the boiler but should really get it flushed or a new boiler and we got a letter within a few days with a price. He never said it could cause damage etc...So it was hi opinion.
BG emailed me yesterday saying that if we are advised on the flush and we dont take it, then something happens then they can refuse the claim.

2nd engineer: My gripe is that this might not be the cause of the heat exchanger leaking as the engineer didnt remove it, so to me i dont see how he could say it got damaged with poor water quality (thats whats written on his sheet he left). Again it might have caused it to leak but you cant tell that from looking at it. Its the original exchanger so might have failed due to the age !. At the same time he said the amount of parts previously replaced outweigh the cost of the boiler so to me thats the real reason they wouldnt do the repair. He said that all the previous repair come up on his computer and thats when he said he would need to call his boss.

He then kind of rubbed salt in the wound by saying he had the parts in the van but it would cost £400 or something plus vat

My other gripe is that BG knew we didnt get the flush but still continued to take our direct debit knowing that any future breakdown wouldnt be covered, even if we did get the flush..
 
When we did central heating it was a piece of cake, get the customer to get a quote off bg and half it and we still made a good profit doing the job properly. I have friends in low places at Bg and they are not proud of the radical operation ie fixing or installing new stuff.
Not all bg fellas are bg anyway they can be hired in contractors
Running under bg flag. As you say tho it’s getting colder and you need reliable heating.
Rob Foster aka centralheatking
 
O

Old Account

Unsure of the reason as to why he prefers me to do that. Either way im more than happy to do that plus his labour charge is less than other quotes i got, albeit the other company was alot bigger than this guy.

He is also doing it quicker for us which we are very grateful of as it was -2 this morning and my poor kids are freezing even with heaters scattered everywhere.
Cheaper doesn’t mean better quality did you think about that?
 

firemant

Esteemed
Plumber
Gas Engineer
What had happened was that we had to keep resetting the boiler. It would then stay on for 3 or 4 days without any issues then after that it would go off maybe twice a day.

The 1st engineer said to my wife that he renewed some filters in the boiler but should really get it flushed or a new boiler and we got a letter within a few days with a price. He never said it could cause damage etc...So it was hi opinion.
BG emailed me yesterday saying that if we are advised on the flush and we dont take it, then something happens then they can refuse the claim.

My other gripe is that BG knew we didnt get the flush but still continued to take our direct debit knowing that any future breakdown wouldnt be covered, even if we did get the flush..
Did the confirmation letter state that they would refuse further service? If not, they cannot rely on an email after the subsequent failure. They may have a clause in the contract itself to support them. However, I suspect a lawyer would say that by accepting further premiums, and without a letter stating further breakdowns would not be repaired, they are obliged to provide that service.

Assuming the letter did not make the relevant statement, my next move would be to ask them to provide a copy of the clause upon which they are relying. Don't let them get away with it. Don't do the common thing, threatening to tell the newspapers. They can handle newspapers, even of they were interested.

If they cannot come up with the clause, ask them how to complain to the FCA. They will definitely not like that. It costs them money even if a complaint is not upheld.

I had a slightly similar issue with an insurance company. To cut a long story short, they refused a claim upon the definition of "property". After countless calls and discussions, I asked them to outline the clause or paragraph that would support their definition. They gave up and paid out.


Good luck.
 

firemant

Esteemed
Plumber
Gas Engineer
Did the confirmation letter state that they would refuse further service? If not, they cannot rely on an email after the subsequent failure. They may have a clause in the contract itself to support them. However, I suspect a lawyer would say that by accepting further premiums, and
without a letter stating further breakdowns would not be repaired, they are obliged to provide that service.

Assuming the letter did not make the relevant statement, my next move would be to ask them to provide a copy of the clause upon which they are relying. Don't let them get away with it. Don't do the common thing, threatening to tell the newspapers. They can handle newspapers, even of they were interested.

If they cannot come up with the clause, ask them how to complain to the FCA. They will definitely not like that. It costs them money even if a complaint is not upheld.

I had a slightly similar issue with an insurance company. To cut a long story short, they refused a claim upon the definition of "property". After countless calls and discussions, I asked them to outline the clause or paragraph that would support their definition. They gave up and paid out.


Good luck.
 
At the end of the day we discussing the reality of a family with redundant heating whom are cold. I say it’s only going to get colder , just do,it get someone in fitba while new boiler on the nevervnever if nec and keep,ur family warm

Rob Foster aka centralheatking
 

firemant

Esteemed
Plumber
Gas Engineer
On Friday, the OP said it would be a few months before they can do anything, funds wise. Every one has a different tolerance level regarding heat or lack of it, and I do not recall mention of kids. It is not for you to encourage folk to get into debt - you have no idea of their circumstance, financial or otherwise. The fact is (on the face of it) that BG are pushing their customer around, and it is not on.

Fact:
BG plans are governed by the FCA, who have teeth.
BG changed their selling practices to avoid FCA sanctions
Every complaint, whether upheld or not, attracts charges
The supervisor may be in the wrong - too many folk say what they think should be the case, rather than checking their facts.
Way too many punters take the word of nameless operatives, rather than arguing their point, believing their is no point
BG managers are (or at least were) ranked on their average call out cost, and are incentivised to keep these as low as possible.
People make mistakes.

If the OP wins her argument, they could have heating back on the same day.

EDIT: Just noticed the earlier response re kids.
 
Last edited:
Hi folks,
Really never thought i would get this much response from my post. When i posted i think i was angry and ranting and just wanted to share with someone.

So many many thanks for the comments and the great advice given. If there is a paypal link i wouldnt mind donating if you guys have one as it is a great site !

We managed to borrow a few heaters so the house is fine and the kids have those onesies so fine in bed at night.

I have a thing about things being plugged in at night so last night i knew the temperature was dropping so i got up early and put the heaters on. Thank god because it was -2.

Kids are at school during the day and we are both out at work so although not ideal we are managing.

Its funny because it makes you realise how lucky we really are with the poor souls out on the streets and families and old folk who cant afford to put the heating on. It was also a great topic to talk to the kids about.

A few posts up mentioned that cheapest is not the best. I agree but the guy doing fitting it is doing us a favor and he is a local well known heating engineer. I really think the guy had sympathy for us as he said he wished he could do it sooner and he actually was one of the guys who loaned us a heater. So to him we are equally grateful and will make sure the favor is returned.
 

Ric2013

Plumber
I don't understand how you are not managing to keep the house warm using electric heaters.

If they are the oil-filled rads, that makes sense, because a lot of them are electrically rated at 3kW but then cannot actually give 3kW as heat to the room so they cycle on and off, so perhaps they give out 1.5kW only, or less.

A kW or two per room is usually sufficient, and most electric heaters will give out at least 1 kW, if set to full. Expensive way of heating a house, but it should work. I'm obviously missing something.
 
I don't understand how you are not managing to keep the house warm using electric heaters.

If they are the oil-filled rads, that makes sense, because a lot of them are electrically rated at 3kW but then cannot actually give 3kW as heat to the room so they cycle on and off, so perhaps they give out 1.5kW only, or less.

A kW or two per room is usually sufficient, and most electric heaters will give out at least 1 kW, if set to full. Expensive way of heating a house, but it should work. I'm obviously missing something.
if its rated at 3kw why should it not do that??
guess i will never be a plumber
 

DuncanM

Gas Engineer
Happy to take money when it is heading in their direction. Kick you off contract when they decide you are no longer likely to be profitable, with an older boiler they might actually have to fix after 10 years of "servicing". Really if they have been "servicing" the appliance from new there should be no sludge in the system as they should have been keeping inhibitor levels etc right in the water ways of the heating system.
 

Mastermixlee

Gas Engineer
Hi,
Firstly it is incredibly unlikely that the attending engineer had a vokera heat exchanger on the van unless it was ordered specifically for that job. It is not a general van stocked item.
So I suspect the job may have been booked in and the attending engineer wasn't fancying the work involved so used the old powerflush get out.

Have you had any other parts replaced that have failed due to reported evidence of sludge?
If not then they have to honour the first fault as stated in their terms and conditions. It is only once it has been proven to have been caused by water quality issues that they can then refuse claims on future sludge related failures unless a powerflush is performed.

Also if you are going to go ahead and get the boiler replaced then ensure your installer is thoroughly powerflushing the system as part of the works, otherwise you may find yourself in a similar scenario with regards to voided boiler warranty due to not being flushed sufficiently before installation.

Lee
 
Hi,
Firstly it is incredibly unlikely that the attending engineer had a vokera heat exchanger on the van unless it was ordered specifically for that job. It is not a general van stocked item.
So I suspect the job may have been booked in and the attending engineer wasn't fancying the work involved so used the old powerflush get out.

Have you had any other parts replaced that have failed due to reported evidence of sludge?
If not then they have to honour the first fault as stated in their terms and conditions. It is only once it has been proven to have been caused by water quality issues that they can then refuse claims on future sludge related failures unless a powerflush is performed.

Also if you are going to go ahead and get the boiler replaced then ensure your installer is thoroughly powerflushing the system as part of the works, otherwise you may find yourself in a similar scenario with regards to voided boiler warranty due to not being flushed sufficiently before installation.

Lee
This is how BG stacks up. The service call at £13 per month does not return a profit for British Gas. Every call out costs £65.00 so a two hit job pushes them into a loss on that property.
Thats why Centrica are trying to sell it all off but no one wants it because of the pension mountain. So all their service and radical boys are under massive pressure
to sell up in any way shape or form. It might be a CO monitor, a magnaclean or in your case a new heating system...there is residual profit in there. Mind you because they are in a hole the new boiler and system installs are great value if you look at the whole package, interest free and loads of cover inc. but make sure you nail the salesman down to the floor and make him return at least twice as he will give you a good deal second time...out of his % from the 1st time..
I would always use a local outfit but in this no neighbours modern world no one talks to their neighbours...I know all mine. they are lovely .centralheatking
 

Ric2013

Plumber
if its rated at 3kw why should it not do that??
guess i will never be a plumber
I think Which? (The Consumers' Association) brought this to my attention. I can confirm I had a DeLonghi 3kW rated oil filled rad. The heating element was indeed 3kW and when switched on and running, it would draw 3kW through the electricity meter. However, once the oil was warm, the radiator was unable to transfer the heat out of the oil as fast as the heating element was heating the oil. So at this point a safety temperature heat limit thermostat stopped it heating any more until it cooled down a little (all exactly as described in the Which report). In practice, in normal usage, the 3kW rated oil-filled rad was converting electricity into heat at around 2kWh per hour if I remember correctly, not 3kWh per hour as would be expected.

Since a water-filled radiator in use in a central heating system is rated for conditions that are not anywhere near that far out from normal usage conditions, a 2kW central heating radiator will chuck out (roughly) the 2kW you would expect.

As such I would agree with you. If it's rated at 3kW it should do that! And, in practice, a fan heater, halogen, or even the very cheap type of convector heater where you can see the wires generally does do that, so I think it's very misleading.
 
I think Which? (The Consumers' Association) brought this to my attention. I can confirm I had a DeLonghi 3kW rated oil filled rad. The heating element was indeed 3kW and when switched on and running, it would draw 3kW through the electricity meter. However, once the oil was warm, the radiator was unable to transfer the heat out of the oil as fast as the heating element was heating the oil. So at this point a safety temperature heat limit thermostat stopped it heating any more until it cooled down a little (all exactly as described in the Which report). In practice, in normal usage, the 3kW rated oil-filled rad was converting electricity into heat at around 2kWh per hour if I remember correctly, not 3kWh per hour as would be expected.

Since a water-filled radiator in use in a central heating system is rated for conditions that are not anywhere near that far out from normal usage conditions, a 2kW central heating radiator will chuck out (roughly) the 2kW you would expect.

As such I would agree with you. If it's rated at 3kW it should do that! And, in practice, a fan heater, halogen, or even the very cheap type of convector heater where you can see the wires generally does do that, so I think it's very misleading.
I use several 2 kw flood lights in my workshop, 100% efficient heat & light
centralheatking
 

Reply to Boiler condemned by British Gas in the Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice area at PlumbersForums.net. Plumbing questions, answers, tips and tricks.

Plumbase - Plumbers Forum Sponsor
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members
Test4Less PlumbersForums.net Sponsor
Wetroom Store - PlumbersForums.net Sponsor
Corgi Direct - Plumbers Forums Sponsor
Power Shower Booster - Official PlumbersForums.net Sponsor
Bulk Workwear - Workwear Sponsor for Plumbers Forums
uHeat Forum Sponsor - PlumbersForums.net
Plumbing Advice - Find Plumbers Jobs
Plumbase - PlumbersForums.net Sponsor

New Posts Threads Members

Wetroom Store - Official Forum Sponsor
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members
Top