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Discuss Black, smelly copper pipes in new build (Gloucester) in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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hi all,
Can anyone explain why my hot and cold water pipes in the cupboard under the kitchen sink have turned black and scaly?
I am in a new build (4.5 years old) and there are no other black pipes in the house. The discolouration is accompanied by a horrible smell (gets worse when the dishwasher is running, I already tried changing the machine to no avail).
The pipes appear to be properly earthed.
The cupboard normally houses household cleaning products.
Please see attached photos.

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Looks a little bit like mould, have you tried (with caution) to wipe the pipes? The stopcock looks like it’s had some kind of salt on it. Could be as Scott has said, try and eliminate a leaking cleaning product? Also seems dodgy to me to have a mains socket near water IMO.
 
It’s not mould. It’s more like corrosion.
I’ve emptied the cupboard of cleaning products and removed the door to let it air. The black can be scraped off to reveal the copper beneath but even then it’s not very coppery.

A4B8390B-6029-47AE-8037-9ABF1C839724.jpeg
 
just copied this from just searching the web on it ,
  • Black – If you see black copper, it may indicate the presence of high sulfur levels or other chemicals in the air, like sewer gas. It could also indicate that the pipe is coming into contact with other non-compatible metals, especially galvanized steel. The worst-case scenario for black copper water pipes is that the builder installed extremely cheap copper that contains a high amount of impurities. Over time, those impurities manifest themselves on the surface of the pipe.
im going with crap in the air around it due to being under a sink, also might be getting a small amount of condensation forming on the pipes due to being a water main , which wont be helping
 
The reaction that causes copper to turn black quite quickly is the presence of high levels of sulphur and moisture. This produces copper sulphide which is black in colour. A by product of the reaction is the gas hydrogen sulphide, the very smelly gas that is the same as the gad given off by rotten eggs. Hydrogen sulphide gas is highly poisonous - but generally when you can smell it, it is in very low concentrations.

There are probably two issues here, a small leak , delivering moisture and a source of sulphur ( probably from a cleaning product). If you have an ion exchange water softener - the waste water from regeneration, if leaking, will exacerbate this problem. As will the waste water from a dishwater that uses salt to artificially soften the wash water.

If you want to test for the presence of sulphur in the atmosphere place a piece of polished silver in the area - place it in a dry spot. If sulphur or sulphur dioxide is present it will quickly ( 2 to 3 days) tarnish very badly.

The other pollutant that may be playing a part is ammonia ( again a product often found in glass cleaning - window gleam type products).

Another, less likely, cause of high sulphur levels is a leaking sewer

If you open the electrical socket, I think that you will see the same problem ( blackened copper) on any exposed copper wires there too.

The solution is to remove all chemical products, identify and isolate the source of moisture and then thoroughly clean the pipes with wire wool.

It is very important that all traces of the blacken copper pipe deposits are removed. For the areas impacted by mould wash down with hydrogen peroxide. Beware that this is a strong bleach - I will say no more!

Often the solution is to remove all the blackened pipe and associated fittings and replace with plastic coated pipe.

Apologies for being depressingly blunt, but rather like damp and mould, to resolve the issue you have to remove both the cause and the products already created.

Having said that, don’t ignore or leave it, beyond the smell, which signifies an active reaction, the copper will erode quite quickly, particularly if there is an electrical potential between the copper pipe and earth.

Make sure that your property does not have an equipotential damp proof membrane installed - this can sometimes be the cause. If you have such a system it will be connected to the mains electricity supply

The products causing this reaction with react with other items in the household - silver being one. From the leak (or possibly damp) perspective once mould spores develop they are very difficult to eradicate.

Apologies for the depressive nature of my note - but you did ask!
 
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I’m not aware there is any rule preventing a socket bing installed in a kitchen cabinet. It’s generally how dish washers/washing machines etc are connected. It’s considered good practice to provide a remote switch but not mandatory as far as I’m aware.
 
Has to be a set distance from pipework mate.

From memory cables can’t be closer than 50mm to a gas pipe over 22mm but there certainly never used to be a rule limiting how close a pipe can be to a wiring accessory.

Good practice would say 150mm and there are other rules that may come into play if it were a tap or a drain cock. Or even if you would expect the pipe to suffer with condensation.

The above does look pretty poor workmanship, given the socket could have gone anywhere I’d put money on it being in first and the pipes going in after. I doubt many sparks would have deliberately fitted it there.
 

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