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USA Back boiler gas usage advice

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Piecan

Hi I've just got a property with an eight year old back boiler. I've been keeping a note of the meter readings and in 40 days its used 118 m3 units. Its been on a timer coming on twice a day for an hour just heating rads no hot water, as its unoccupied. For two hours it uses 3 units which I calculated as 33kwh. It seems a lot to me. Is this right or does it need checking? I'm hoping to get a combi fitted, as long as it makes a difference. The property has eight rads and is a two bed detached house. Thanks
 
Check the data badge and that should tell you how many kw the boiler is but a combi is mostly likely to save you money, how many people are at the property and how many bathrooms hace you got? Whats the water pressure like?
 
Hi thanks for your replies. There is only me and there is a bathroom and will be a shower room. The water pressure is good. I will have a look for the badge but its a Baxi Bermuda rg3. I'm waiting on a quote for a Worcester cdi and potterton platinum the latter having a five year warranty on the heat to heat exchanger, not sure on the Worcester. In my house and my friends we used 1 unit in two hours so this one using three units in two hrs seems high. The meter was only put in 2007, so that should be working ok I would have thought. Maybe the Baxi is gas hungry?!
 
Then yes i would put a combi in for sure will save you a fortune, i know people will hate me for saying this as not everyone likes them but have you thought about an ideal logic+ i fit them all the time and come with 5 years parts and labour and there around £650 + vat.
 
when the boiler is serviced every 12 months it should be gas rated to check its consuming the correct amount of gas. Ask your gsr engineer next time to confirm the measurements are correct.
 
the sums, only rough figures, complete change over boiler, upgrade rads to trvs rm stat etc, £3500, year 6 new pcb etc £400, hope it makes it to yr 7&8 and new boiler £4500 etc total over say 10 years £8400or £840 a year. If you stay in house 10 years cost £840 a year, are you making that sort of saving on your gas bill. Just being a devils advocate before you rip out a working boiler! a lot of savings can be made with insulation before you go and rip it out. Could spend more on a decent boiler or less and have more repairs. if you move house yr 6 have you saved anything?
 
Agree with above it depends on how long your going to stay there to recover the money back, if not you are paying for someone else's boiler.
 
AWheating said:
when the boiler is serviced every 12 months it should be gas rated to check its consuming the correct amount of gas. Ask your gsr engineer next time to confirm the measurements are correct.
Click to expand...

Would you really gas rate a back boiler? I've only ever checked working pressure and burner pressure! I'd only gas rate of I thought something was amiss.
 
Thanks guys and I appreciate the sums of how much it would cost in terms of recovering the initial cost...I have paid for someone else's boiler in my current house as it was only fitted two years ago, but life has nasty surprises hence I'm alone in my next move. The other reason for dumping the Baxi is it feels rather drafty with its nice large vent in the suspended floor and chimney vent, plus the shower and toilet is going to be sited where the hot water tank is in the cupboard upstairs. I intend to live there till I'm too old to look after it and the garden, when by then, me and my possible large collection of cats, get moved to a cosy little new build and I'm known as the mad old cat woman...well that's how I see the future progressing anyway!
 
INTERGAS. Very good if your going to do it, do a bit of research as it will be a long term investment.
The worcester sell tons because there the big boys in the market, I fit a lot of them as there easy to sell. In my own house I would fit a Intergas.
 
plumber0808 said:
INTERGAS. Very good if your going to do it, do a bit of research as it will be a long term investment.
The worcester sell tons because there the big boys in the market, I fit a lot of them as there easy to sell. In my own house I would fit a Intergas.
Click to expand...

I remembered Intergas when I got the heating engineer round but he hadn't heard of them so I asked for Worcester CDI and Potterton as it was the same he'd fitted for a member of his family. He fitted the heating system I have now and my parents. I may get other quotes though.
 
Every installer will have a preference, if you went with a intergas the installer must be a platinum installer to get a 5 year warranty otherwise its 2 years.
Any boiler these days should come with a 5 yr warranty apart from the cheapo ones.
the logics are good, my customers usually go for the worcester.
i think they go on the net and their website is very good and are a very known manufacturer
 
Piecan said:
For two hours it uses 3 units which I calculated as 33kwh. It seems a lot to me. Is this right or does it need checking?
Click to expand...

Remember: Power = Energy/Time

So our calculation would be: 3*10/2=~15 KWh

As for the gas usage i woudn't day is too much. The efficiency of a good back boiler is comparable to the open flued one, and is ~10-15% less than a balanced flue one.

Before doing boiler replacement I would make sure ALL WALLs and ceilings are WELL insulated...

Also I would go for systems boiler (keep the HW tank or replace it with unvented one), than the combi, unless you've got a fireengines level flow rate from your's mains feed... The combis usually are less reliable than the good systems/heat only boilers. And tend to be more expensive in the long run (including service/repairs), than the HW cyl + heat only/systems one.
 
Bronze_tap said:
Also I would go for systems boiler (keep the HW tank or replace it with unvented one), than the combi, unless you've got a fireengines level flow rate from your's mains feed... The combis usually are less reliable than .
Click to expand...

Eh? You need a good flow rate for a unvented cylinder?? They also want the airing cupboard space.
 
Thanks I did ask about the Baxi condensing back boiler but yes you need a special flue liner and then the condensate pipe has to be run out through the living room wall. Another reason for dumping it is that I've heard from the neighbour that the previous occupant had nothing but trouble with this existing boiler, British Gas have been round so often they may has well have moved in apparently. I'm getting everything decorated and when a bathroom will be fitted upstairs all the walls will be internally insulated to current requirements, as either side the bedroom walls are dwaft walls and sloping bits as they are in the chalet roof.

When I get a new boiler I will continue to take out insurance cover which includes an annual service. I do prefer system boilers usually but don't want water tanks in the tiny not very accessible loft and a combi will take up less room. I will take good care of her and maybe she will play nice and not break down on me.
 
Piecan said:
When I get a new boiler I will continue to take out insurance cover
Click to expand...

Waste of time and money.

Piecan said:
which includes an annual service.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't.

Piecan said:
I do prefer system boilers usually but don't want water tanks in the tiny not very accessible loft and a combi will take up less room. I will take good care of her and maybe she will play nice and not break down on me.
Click to expand...

If you want to take care of your boiler have it serviced every year by a professional that will follow the MI's, not just stick a probe in the flue and call it a service like Centrica (British Gas)
 
TBServices said:
Waste of time and money.



No it doesn't.



If you want to take care of your boiler have it serviced every year by a professional that will follow the MI's, not just stick a probe in the flue and call it a service like Centrica (British Gas)
Click to expand...

I've always had insurance that's included an annual service. It came in very handy when things went wrong on my previous old boiler. It was through servo warm which I think then became through home serve. I don't use British Gas. Maybe the boiler needs servicing properly, just hope I can get it changed soon..not really worth spending money on something that's going to be ripped out.
 
There is no need to insure a boiler under warranty, for the first 5 years bank the money.
i know you are not going with BG service contract but an example: they fit a boiler then try to sell a service contract after a year even though it is covered, so they charge you x amount for something you will already have with the manufacturer
 
I always take out insurance when the manufacturing warranty has ended and pay for a proper annual service until I take out insurance which includes one.
 
Hi again. I've timed the revolutions on the gas meter. There are three red ones. The first takes 21 seconds to do a full turn, the second one in takes 3 minutes 35. I turned the hot water on and strangely instead of speeding up it slowed to 24 seconds. Do these figures sound normal speed? The thermostat is on 10. Thanks

weird I turned the hot water off so it was just heating and it went faster taking 25 seconds, turned on water again and it slowed to 35 seconds.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Are you at the wind up villa?
You never gas rate a back boiler, but you check the burner pressure?
The scenario I give trainees is " you get called to a boiler which is now not heating the rads as quickly or they aren't getting as hot, you check the MI and it says BP 13 mb, you fit u gauge and confirm BP is 13 mb what could be the prob, and how do you check it"?

The answer could be lack of gas, getting to the burner, therefore not burning, the easiest check in the world and one of the most ignored is gas rate, before I check BP I would gas rate all day every day, if the boiler is 28kw a quick gas rate tells you if it is getting full gas, checking BP tells you there is gas at the test point NOT that it is getting burned, due usually to the burner needing cleaned.
Imagine checking BP then blocking an injector with your thumb, the flame would drop and put the burner out but what would it do to the BP? ( nothing, therefore BP only is hardly worth the bother)
 
Piecan said:
I will have a look for the badge but its a Baxi Bermuda rg3.
Click to expand...
RG3 just refers to the fire!

The data plate for the boiler can be seen if you lie down and look under the fire. You will need a torch! It will probably be the Bermuda Inset 51/5 (GC No: 44 075 06).

That boiler has an output which can be adjusted (by a Gas Safe Engineer) between 7.5 and 15kW. The input is between 9.3 and 18.6kW
 
Piecan said:
Hi I've just got a property with an eight year old back boiler. I've been keeping a note of the meter readings and in 40 days its used 118 m3 units. Its been on a timer coming on twice a day for an hour just heating rads no hot water, as its unoccupied. For two hours it uses 3 units which I calculated as 33kwh.
Click to expand...
So you are heating up the house twice a day from cold. No wonder you have high gas consumption!

33kWh over 2 hours is 16.5kW per hour. The boiler consumes 18kW per hour (see my previous post), so it is running flat out for about 55 minutes per hour.

Putting the idea of a combi boiler to one side for a moment, you need to check how much heating your house needs. The easiest way to do this is to use the Whole House Boiler Size Calculator. I doubt very much if you need 18kW in a two bed house with eight rads.

The next thing to do is to check if your rads can provide the required heat. Use the first table in Stelrad Elite Catalogue to find out.
 

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