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natwill

Hi,

Just need an issue cleared up with some of your help.

If i have my gas ticket for boilers, when taking out a back boiler does this allow me to replace the fire and leave it working or will i need my ticket for fires to do so. My guess is that i would. Just thought i would see what u guys say.

Thanks
 
The back boiler can not be removed and the fire still be used as the fire needs the back boiler for flueing.

I would also say that as you do not have a ticket for fires you are not legally allowed to remove the fire to access the boiler as the fire would need testing after re-fitting to ensure all is ok.

I would also speak to the manufacturer to see what there stance is on keeping the fire in place with the back boiler no longer in operation. In my experience, some say ok, others advise not to.
 
The back boiler can not be removed and the fire still be used as the fire needs the back boiler for flueing.

I would also say that as you do not have a ticket for fires you are not legally allowed to remove the fire to access the boiler as the fire would need testing after re-fitting to ensure all is ok.

I would also speak to the manufacturer to see what there stance is on keeping the fire in place with the back boiler no longer in operation. In my experience, some say ok, others advise not to.

this is not correct, a fire front is deemed "a part" of the back boiler unit, and can be worked on if you have CEN1
 
but there is a guide on this at gas safes website baxi dont recommend you do this (and its probably a bermuda)
 
As said above,Yes you are allowed to remove and refit the fire as they are classed as one unit.
 
i'm confused.com.

either is or aint.?

if you remove the fire and replace it, when you refit how do you know it is safe if you dont have the ticket to work on it.
if the fire is a part of the boiler then if you decom the boiler then the fire shouldnt be operational either or its an independant unit?.
 
A lot of back boilers out tonight:)

A fire and back boiler is classed as a combined central heating unit. You don't need fires to work on one.

If you cut the boiler off and want to leave the fire you must leave the boiler decommisioned and in position as it is a part of the fire. Remove the gas valve and cap it. Remove the electrics. Leave any water pipework cut and open.
This is subject to what the manu says as some allow it and some don't.
 
I havent got water heaters, but surely under ccn1 I can remove one and cap off the gas supply?.
 
Well it seems strange then that the manufacturers give you 2 different manuals, one for the fire and one for the BBU, if the whole unit is classed as one?? Seems like yet another area that there is no definitive answer to. I find it hard to believe that someone without there fire ticket could re-connect the gas fire to the BBU and safely test that it was operating correctly if they have not been trained to do so. You gotta love this job at times :)
 
Well it seems strange then that the manufacturers give you 2 different manuals, one for the fire and one for the BBU, if the whole unit is classed as one?? Seems like yet another area that there is no definitive answer to. I find it hard to believe that someone without there fire ticket could re-connect the gas fire to the BBU and safely test that it was operating correctly if they have not been trained to do so. You gotta love this job at times :)
Is that not because there are usually a multitude of different fires that are compatible the BBU. So it easier to give the relevant manual separate.
 
ccn1 allows you to remove any gas appliance in order to cap it off cen1 allows you to work on the bbu
 
Well I still find it slightly concerning that in the original post the chap was asking if he could remove the back boiler and leave the fire working. Surely the fact that he even suggests removing a back boiler and leaving the fire in place shows that he is not competent to work on fires as he does not realise the important role the back boiler takes in the flueing of the fire? Yet apparently he is qualified to do so as he has his boiler ticket. Still highlights a grey area and also lack of training.

By the way, no offence intended to original poster.
 
if an installer does not have fires on his card i do find it hard to believe they can still refit fire after removing it are we sure this is the case? because technically if you can do what was said then why bother geting fires if you have cen1? and dont really do fire installs
 
if an installer does not have fires on his card i do find it hard to believe they can still refit fire after removing it are we sure this is the case? because technically if you can do what was said then why bother geting fires if you have cen1? and dont really do fire installs

yes we are 100% sure, it is classed as part of the boiler so to fit it you would have CEN1 and CCN1 which covers the flueing and ventilation
requirements for a BBU, if you want to fit a stand alone fire there are other requirements not used for BBU's, catchment spaces, precast flues etc, not saying it is perfect (like a lot of the other regs/rules) but you asked the question am i 100% sure he is allowed to do it, to which the answer is yes he is allowed.
 
it must come under the same thing, as when you cut into a gas pipe you should remove the meter but what if you havnt got meters .can you not work on the system,so you can remove the meter while you work thats how i see it ,i could be wrong
 
another thing i just wonder why its all separate ie fires.cookers ,meters ,boilers etc cos if you got one but not another you carnt work on it but sometimes your gunner come across situations where you have to, so you should have to do the lot so basically if you got boilers but not fires your illegal yet your gsr seams a bit strange to me
 
A lot of back boilers out tonight:)

A fire and back boiler is classed as a combined central heating unit. You don't need fires to work on one.

If you cut the boiler off and want to leave the fire you must leave the boiler decommisioned and in position as it is a part of the fire. Remove the gas valve and cap it. Remove the electrics. Leave any water pipework cut and open.
This is subject to what the manu says as some allow it and some don't.

This is the correct answer.
 
it must come under the same thing, as when you cut into a gas pipe you should remove the meter but what if you havnt got meters .can you not work on the system,so you can remove the meter while you work thats how i see it ,i could be wrong

TB 127 says you're ok to remove and reinstate the meter if you have CCN1 or CMA1, to reposition you need MET1 and to relocate you need MET2 as well
 
TB091 covers this. The boiler should remain, de-comissioned and disconnected as discussed. The fire should be re-commisioned by a competent person.
 
another thing i just wonder why its all separate ie fires.cookers ,meters ,boilers etc cos if you got one but not another you carnt work on it but sometimes your gunner come across situations where you have to, so you should have to do the lot so basically if you got boilers but not fires your illegal yet your gsr seams a bit strange to me

the reason for splitting up the appliances was to allow people to pay for the bits they need, ie kitchen fitters only need CKR1, fire place fitters only need HTR1, white box fitters only need CEN1, maintenance guys should get them all as they never know what repair they will get to do,
 
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