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at annual service told boiler was dirty - is this a way to be ripped off

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selondonman

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hello i have scottish power boiler cover .. a couple of times recently boiler shut down on its own (keston) had annual boiler service and engineer told wife the boiler is dirty ..

does this mean there is sludge which of course isnt covered

so it this an excuse for the plumber to try and make me spend more cash when he could repair it under the warranty ?

how will i be able to determine that ?

also if i have to go down the power flushing route .. does it have to be the plumber that did the service and i assume will try to charge max .. or can any registered plumber do the powerflush and the maintenance contract be continued
 
do you have problems with your rads heating up evenly ?
 
Modern boilers have small heat exchangers with very narrow water pathways. The sludge is derived from the reaction between various metallic components in the heating system. There are numerous chemical additives for the centralheating water to prevent this sludge reaction happening. However home owners often ignore the warnings and end up with sludge in their system. Then a chemical treatment is not enough and a full system flush is required and can take a day to do throughly. After which the preventative chemical are added. The homeowner might wish to put a
magnetic and non magnetic filter near the boiler return as well. Manufacturers will invalidate warrantee on their products if the above are not implemented...a simple test will establish the situation. Some insurance type schemes stipulate a similar approach.

I would check the small print, a flush might be already in your scheme. I cannot see they can insist in your case...after all my new Honda is not serviced by Honda but with genuine honda parts at a much cheaper price.

However September is just around the corner but the big outfits are short of work at this time of year and desperate for extra work. Rob Foster aka
centralheatking
 
These contracts are set up in the contractors favour. They will happily take your money untill such time as they think it is going to cost them money and I see loads of people chucked off their contract as boiler gets older with rubbish like parts are no longer available or sludge in a system they have been "looking after" for 10 years.
 
Riley said:
Oh I’m not debating that but it just grips me when so many of these threads start like this whether it’s a big company or a sole trader
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I think the media plays a big role in how the public perceive the trade in general. It's never a story about how someone had some work done and it was great. It's always a sob story of how someone was ripped off. It just engrains it in the public to question everything relating to tradesmen.
 
How long has it been in? Is there a filter? Did the installer flush the system or just fit and run which is becoming all to common these days.
 
so the engineer came for the service

here are his comments

Appliance - All ok Visit - Service complete, cleaned out condense trap however found pump running slow due to dirt in the system. Will need to be replaced soon also advise a power flush

Initial combustion reading, where applicable 0.0001 Final combustion reading, where applicable 0.0001

CO PPM 8.4 CO2% 7 CO/ CO2 Ratio 0.0001

havent had any problem with radiators being half hot half cold ..

boiler has been in about 11 years .. serviced every year

out of interest why at each service as chemicals not added ?

so do i need a clean or full power flush

i dont think a filter is fitted

whats stuffs me up is the friendly engineer has know stuffed me .. if the pump goes the boiler cover wont replace it unless power flush done .. and i am not seeing any need for it

seems a nice way to try and get some extra business thrown their way

interestingly had boiler cover with scottish power .. nothing mentioned .. suddenly new company takes over and tries to invalidate policy asap

the chemical stuff does my head in .. why is this not added as part of the cost of your service plan ..

i assume that would mean actually helping the customer save money ..

i have had good experiences with independent plumbers .. who live and die by their own reputation .. others who work for insurance / service companies are definitely not on the side of the consumer
 
Riley said:
Another thread asking am I being “ripped off” is it possible that the engineer is actually right?? Why always so accusatory
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because after the boiler being served year in year out without one engineer putting in or suggesting any chemicals to stop sludge .. then a service plans that excludes power flushing and non power flushing voiding plan .. the deck of cars is stacked against you .. how can the consumer not be accusatory
 
Because you’ve come out and said your system doesn’t have a filter on it and no chemicals have been added at services. There’s some ammo to go back with. The likelihood is that your system is dirty BUT that hasn’t happened overnight, that has happened due to neglect and a lack of proper servicing.
 
Riley said:
Because you’ve come out and said your system doesn’t have a filter on it and no chemicals have been added at services. There’s some ammo to go back with. The likelihood is that your system is dirty BUT that hasn’t happened overnight, that has happened due to neglect and a lack of proper servicing.
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would filters have be added as standard in 2008 ?

i have had a boiler service plan .. will the companies come back and say you need a a boiler and radiator plan to include chemicals ..
 
Small print mate. Filters have been around for years and people still choose not to fit them. Additionally has the company pointed out that one would be a good idea? They can be fitted after the event
 
All my systems get drained and manually flushed every 5 years with new inhibitor added, would you leave the same oil in your car for 10 years answer is no neglect your heating system and it will fail sooner or later . Kop
 
selondonman said:
so the engineer came for the service


Interestingly had boiler cover with scottish power .. nothing mentioned .. suddenly new company takes over and tries to invalidate policy asap

i have had good experiences with independent plumbers .. who live and die by their own reputation .. others who work for insurance / service companies are definitely not on the side of the consumer
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The middle paragraph say`s it all for me!
 
so the error on the keston q28s is an e04 which is

E04
Flame lost 5 times in a single demand period - check combustion setting high
and low, and ignitor condition

would this be caused by sludge ?

need for power flush ?

thanks
 
Not that it should make any difference that you are a landlord but I would be tempted to bin the service contract and employ a local independent firm to look after your boiler for you and put the money saved on the contract into an account for when something happens like a breakdown. The boiler you have unfortunately really isn’t a good one, and it sounds like it’s been up kept very poorly. For nobody from this contract firm to mention that a filter would probably help the situation shows that they aren’t interested in longevity they are just interested in taking your money month on month. The error code you mention could be one of a number of things. The long and short of it is that your system could well be dirty as I’ve said before this doesn’t happen overnight so I would be going back to the company and asking why the system hasn’t been treated properly with chemicals over the years that they’ve been maintaining it and also why they’ve never made any mention of the installation of a filter to aid the cleaning of the system. Your initial question was is the engineer that came out pulling a fast one? Based on what you’ve told us I would say no he isn’t he’s making the final call on what is probably already a badly maintained system
 
yes agree keston arent the best .. and yes in hindsight should have cancelled the policy and banked the money .. due to location of boiler there is a horizontal flue run of 6 meters .. would prefer to keep same location and not have to change flue pipes .. so dont really want to replace a keston with a new keston but from what i have read i will struggle to use a valiant etc ..
so not sure i have a choice

i see the keston know producers their own filters .. so if retro fitting a filter does it matter if keston or not ..
 
Right let’s backtrack, where are you with this have they basically told you the boiler is beyond economical repair and you need a new one? is it just coming up with this error code and won’t fire or what? Personally speaking my first port of call would be to go back to this company and say to them you’ve not maintained my boiler. I have no reason to believe that the last engineer to come out hasn’t done a proper job but based on his report there has clearly been a lack of proper maintenance on the boiler and by proper I mean recommendations to you the customer re a filter, dosing the system with chemicals and actually cleaning the boiler properly. You seem to be looking for a quick fix to get this up and running again yet I would say for a prolonged period of neglect and improper maintenance it requires a proper fix
 
Riley said:
Right let’s backtrack, where are you with this have they basically told you the boiler is beyond economic all repair and you need a new one? is it just coming up with this error code and won’t fire or what? Personally speaking my first port of call would be to go back to this company and say to them you’ve not maintained my boiler. I have no reason to believe that the last engineer to come out hasn’t done a proper job but based on his report there has clearly been a lack of proper maintenance on the boiler and buy proper I mean recommendations to you the customer or filter, dosing the system with chemicals and actually cleaning the boiler properly. You seem to be looking for a quick fix to get this up and running again yet I would say for a prolonged period of neglect and improper maintenance it requires a proper fix
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Isn't it a case of a new company taking over? If so then they aren't responsible for what did or didn't happen before.

Don't see how the forum can help tbh.
 
I totally agree mate, However in the interest of fairness I wouldn’t say this company has done what they told the customer that they’ve done
 
Riley said:
I totally agree mate, However in the interest of fairness I wouldn’t say this company has done what they told the customer that they’ve done
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The only thing that the op will get is a headache now he has switched companies.
Sorry but that's how I see it
 
tenants are telling me they have had to reset the boiler a few times recently as they are getting an error message on boiler .. time came for annual service .. tenant told plumber the issue .. plumber says needs flush .. service contract says wont cover flushing and wont do anything until flushing has occurred .. it hasnt got to the point of non economic yet .. the issue is the boiler cant be repaired until power flush has been done .. so i feel trapped into paying a lot of money whcih might not be needed if the ignition is at fault

i can mention lack of service or lack or suggestion to install filter .. not sure that will get me anywhere ..

asking questions re new boiler due to the concerns i have for replacing a keston with a horizontal flue
 
I’m simply a layman but I’d have thought that an 11 year old system that has no inhibitor or filter would be desperate for a flush regardless of any error messages from the boiler.
 
You can but try but as far as I’m concerned they have not been maintaining your boiler
 
TonyQJ said:
I’m simply a layman but I’d have thought that an 11 year old system that has no inhibitor or filter would be desperate for a flush regardless of any error messages from the boiler.
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depends on the system and how it was installed ive got a system on old rads (15) that i havent touched and im sure you can drink the water its that clear :D
 
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