Air source heat pump advice

[lenny]

Im looking into installing a air source heat pump. Is it possible to install diectly a ufh system? The system requires about 4kw. I have been told it must be installed with a thermalstore. The problem I have is lack of space for the thermalstore.

Thanks

Len

 

[ecowarm]

Mitsubisi ecodan can be installed without a thermal store

 

[lenny]

Thanks for that ecowarm I will look in to them, can you recommend a supplier.

lenny

 

[ecowarm]

Hi Lenny
Ecodan Advanced Heating Technology
Go on the course and buy direct.
Eco

 

[Lincsplumber]

Hi Lenny,
I think you'll find that it would be a buffer tank that should've of been suggested to you, it makes a heat pump run more efficiently. I'm pretty certain the the Mitsubishi advise the use of the buffer tank. Why are you opting for a heat pump? don't you have access to mains gas/oil?
Heat pumps(unless ground source) are a un-green, expensive method of heating, and reliability are also an issue....too!

LP

 

[ecowarm]

Hi Lenny,
I think you'll find that it would be a buffer tank that should've of been suggested to you, it makes a heat pump run more efficiently. I'm pretty certain the the Mitsubishi advise the use of the buffer tank. Why are you opting for a heat pump? don't you have access to mains gas/oil?
Heat pumps(unless ground source) are a un-green, expensive method of heating, and reliability are also an issue....too!

LP

??????? heat pumps are an expensive method of heating???????? compared to what? They are equal to modern gas condensing boilers so if you live off the gas grid, not enough land or unsuitable land what option do you have? Oil? LPG? Solid fuel?
Logs? (good option) but hard work.
I know what I would recommend.
Some manufacturers have a reliability issue. (cheap Chinese models)
Some manufacturers have large immersion back up heaters. (not needed if sized correctly)
But the likes of Mitsubishi, one of the world largest and most reliable aircon manufacturers in the world does not.
The ECODAN DOES NOT NEED A BUFFER its inverter driven technology makes the use of a buffer unnecessary. Buffers are for fixed speed heat pumps.

Don't you have gas/oil????????????????????????????

Sorry rant over now, going to work to install renewable technology is the way forward! Dont get stuck in the dark ages Lincsplumb

Eco

 

[oldplumber]

didnt realise 5th nov had been and gone already, light blue touch paper and stand back, eco was here lol

 

[Lincsplumber]

Whoa! is this how you really treat new arrivals?
I said, ' pretty certain' not definetly! and as for heat pumps, they ARE unreliable. I was repairing and installing proper heat pumps( Daikin, Mitsubishi- condensor/evaporator)) in offices and shops etc. ten years ago. not the pathetic 2x wet pipe jobbies your fitting! fit and forget....any noddy could do that!( do you know how to vac out a system or weigh in refridgerent or pressure test unit) i doubt it so do me a favour and chill! your not the only one who knows his onions....buddy!
Eco when your round a potential customers homes, giving them the 'sell' what actual COP figures are you quoting them.......don't tell me 4-5, cause your really going to split my sides! I would be really surprised to find any ASHP producing 1-2 in the times you really need heat i.e freezing. = 1 unit leccy @ 15p producing 1- 2 unit heat kwh..........fortune to run! so they're not expensive to run are they?

ASHP are officially carp, whether they're inverter driven(modulating) or not!

There's only GSHP which could give real payback, but i doubt that people have the m2 in there garden or the 10k for a bore hole+ 7k unit. + installation cost.

And how do you harp on about RENEWABLE work, whats renewable abot heat pumps?? where does the power come from? how much coal/ gas are burnt to provide the power for the forementioned heatpump. Thats not not taking into consideration the power consumed and co2 emitted to process the coal and gas and uranium to produce the power for heatpump....then theres the losses from station to home!
Theres only one really renewable energy accessable to the masses and that solar, thats why i've been installing it for 9 years and P.V. Two weeks ago received my M.C.S accreditation ( thermal solar and pv solar), finding it expensive to support my HETAS( wet and dry), OFTEC, Part P, Gas Safe, unvented etc etc.
Whats even more difficult is coming home after installing 1x solar install a week, 1-2x boiler change a week, looking after 4x landlords, numerous faithfull customers and just finalising plans for a 40 home green development with pv/thermal solar/ thermal store( exphe)/ wbs( all individually sourced components...no kits!) , that i have designed and nutured through planning from start to finish.

LP

 

[ecowarm]

didnt realise 5th nov had been and gone already, light blue touch paper and stand back, eco was here lol

Got him hooked, now stand back while I reel him in

 

[pfd17]

Hello
I am new and I have just noticed your thread on ASHP.
I have just had one fitted!!! Although I use this term loosely. I would say and so does NICEIC thrown in. THe wring is dodgy the flow returns are not correctly installed
the pump is undersized and the list goes on.
THe builder states this is correct!!! The supplier whom commisioned the unit BUT now states that he has NOT, it is working and he has signed the paper work AND a government grant was received!!! now states that he did not commision the unit? , and has NOT supplied us with heat loss calculations, (which is against MCS rules/regs).
We under took a test on running cost's (central London area) the property was locked up with only the heat pump working, the electric reading for a 24 hour period was £6.75 p .
Cheap and ecconomical .. I don't think. We are at present waiting for the dead line for the 2 COWBOY'S to rectify this however I do not think we'll see them. When the 6 weeks are up I will post with full names on this site along with video on you tube naming and shaming.

 

[unguided1]

Hello
I am new and I have just noticed your thread on ASHP.
I have just had one fitted!!! Although I use this term loosely. I would say and so does NICEIC thrown in. THe wring is dodgy the flow returns are not correctly installed
the pump is undersized and the list goes on.
THe builder states this is correct!!! The supplier whom commisioned the unit BUT now states that he has NOT, it is working and he has signed the paper work AND a government grant was received!!! now states that he did not commision the unit? , and has NOT supplied us with heat loss calculations, (which is against MCS rules/regs).
We under took a test on running cost's (central London area) the property was locked up with only the heat pump working, the electric reading for a 24 hour period was £6.75 p .
Cheap and ecconomical .. I don't think. We are at present waiting for the dead line for the 2 COWBOY'S to rectify this however I do not think we'll see them. When the 6 weeks are up I will post with full names on this site along with video on you tube naming and shaming.

Out of interest what size and age is your property?
how well insulated is the property?
what size heatpump did they install?
what size pipework was installed?
was a buffer tank installed?
what sort of system is the HP installed onto?
Is there any form of stat controlling the HP?
If you have recieved a government grant you must have a copy of the MCS certificate, this can only be issued after the commisioning

 

[pfd17]

Hi unguided,
Sorry about the delay in replying. We have repeatedly asked for heat loss calculations and have NEVER received them.
The size of the property is approx 200 sq mt. although Ecoliving stated 180sm (we lost a room!!) I don't think so. Ceiling hight on lower floor is 2.8m and upper floor ceiling hight 3.15m they stated average hight 2.3 !!!! This is a victorian property not a new build. Eco living maintain that the heat pump of 8.5kw is correct, again I don't think so.
David Bray was the main contractor whose plumber has not plumbed it in correctly!
The heat pump is connected to a Kingspan h/w cylinder. The heating is underfloor with room stat's however all wired in-correctly. We are going to avertise this complete systen on Ebay as is completly rubbish any one who would like to bid please feel free. Oh last question sorry Yes we DID receive a grant. Eco living stated to N.I.C.E.I.C that they did NOT commission the unit, however we have over whelming evidence that they did. Would you trust a company like this!!!

 

[bobgarden]

Try Trianco, they do some good ASHP's. Did a course a few years back with them and would use them on my own house.

 

[quality]

Try Trianco, they do some good ASHP's. Did a course a few years back with them and would use them on my own house.

Are you serious

 

[unguided1]

Try Trianco, they do some good ASHP's. Did a course a few years back with them and would use them on my own house.

Avoid Trianco heatpumps unless they have recently done some huge design changes to them, they are not an MCS accredited product

 

[bobgarden]

Not heard anything bad about them till now. What gives?

 

[unguided1]

They are designed to work with air temperatures of around 20 degrees, so in reality they are only for summer use, in their own literature they only work down to minus 5 degrees, which in something like the winter we have just had means yer gonna go cold

 

[pfd17]

Hello
THanks for the advice. I basically think that we have been done.
Both David Bray (Brayfield) and Ecoliving are keeping quiet. THe heat pump is a Mitsubushi W85 . We have been in contact with Mitsubushi and NICEIC, they not only condended the wiring and plumbing but also suggested that it need to be sized properly. This was confirmed to Ecoliving at an on site meeting, i.e. too small a unit. Being in central London we really should have gone for a gas boiler this would have been our cheapest option, and now less trouble (would you trust any of these??)

 

[leakeee]

ecodans blow up lol changed 100+

 

[quality]

I have to disagree with some previous statements.
But must stress that if natural gas available then the best heatpump install in the world is not going to match a natural gas fuelled heating system on cost of install/running.

However a proper heat pump system installed properly will nock spots off any oil or LPG ayatem

 

[solar tido]

The 'Renewable' bit about GSHP is supposed to be solar. ie the ground is reheated by the sun.
I have been researching heat pumps and found that they have a bad name in the UK because many installations haven't been done properly. Sizing the pump and collector is the key to success.

 

[pfd17]

Hello Solar Tido,
You are right it appears that most people do not know what they are doing.
Our installation was a botched job. NICEIC have found numerous problems. Mitsubishi have found problems, however guess what, BOTH Bray and Ecoliving state there is nothing wrong AND claim it's installed properly!!. The whole industry needs one hell of a kick up the rear. These guy's just do not give a dam, they only want to sell these things without any care or thought.