Advice regarding Buchan trap

[Charlie Jez]

Looking for advice regarding a Buchan Trap. Mine needs regular attention and maintenance, flushing etc. Waste/ Loo paper arrives in the U Bend then sits there as the flow of water is not strong enough to push it along. Needs more of a constant flow of water. I've read that an option is to dig it up and replace it with a straight pipe. Can anyone give me some tips or any advice if you have one of these traps or know anything about them . Thank you

 

[Ric2013]

My understanding is these interceptor traps were fitted to prevent rats coming up from the main sewer (because rats are really going to be scared off by a few inches of water).

If that section of sewer is shared with other houses it probably belongs to your local water board anyway - the law changed a few years ago as to who owns what.

Assuming you own the sewer, taking it out would be notifiable to Building Control, but they will probably agree it can be removed. They are still available new to fit, and may serve a purpose, but my understanding is they are increasingly rare.

 

[WC1]

Agree with ric, also they prevented sewer gas coming up into the property when the technology to make s bend type traps under sinks etc. in small bore (1 1/2" 1 1/4") pipe was not well developed.

 

[Charlie Jez]

My understanding is these interceptor traps were fitted to prevent rats coming up from the main sewer (because rats are really going to be scared off by a few inches of water).

If that section of sewer is shared with other houses it probably belongs to your local water board anyway - the law changed a few years ago as to who owns what.

Assuming you own the sewer, taking it out would be notifiable to Building Control, but they will probably agree it can be removed. They are still available new to fit, and may serve a purpose, but my understanding is they are increasingly rare.

Hi Ric , As regards the water board . I live where there are only two properties , my neighbour and my own . The water board when I spoke to them and when I did investigations on purchase that my drains are un mapped . They tell me I can’t even have a water meter because of my location . It’s complicated , so won’t bore you . I got the location of the drains etc from old archives .
My only neighbour denies responsibility for the trap even though her waste goes directly to it . Another story . I think the only option have is to get a quote to dig it out and put a straight pipe in . It is ok as long as I flush it out on a regular basis . If I leave it for a month the u bend blocks with waste and loo paper .
The bend is a hinderance not a help . I certainly wouldn’t put another buchan trap in there . It just needs a stronger flow of water to push it though the u bend . The u bend is acting like a collection point and requires me to push it along by flushing . Thank you for your kind advice , much appreciated

 

[Ric2013]

Hi Ric , As regards the water board . I live where there are only two properties , my neighbour and my own . The water board when I spoke to them and when I did investigations on purchase that my drains are un mapped . They tell me I can’t even have a water meter because of my location . It’s complicated , so won’t bore you . I got the location of the drains etc from old archives .
My only neighbour denies responsibility for the trap even though her waste goes directly to it . Another story . I think the only option have is to get a quote to dig it out and put a straight pipe in . It is ok as long as I flush it out on a regular basis . If I leave it for a month the u bend blocks with waste and loo paper .
The bend is a hinderance not a help . I certainly wouldn’t put another buchan trap in there . It just needs a stronger flow of water to push it though the u bend . The u bend is acting like a collection point and requires me to push it along by flushing . Thank you for your kind advice , much appreciated

If two houses share a section of sewer connected to mains sewerage then they used to own it together (unless, I suppose you have some form of alternative agreement, but logically if it's nothing to do with your neighbour you'd (reductio ad absurdem) be within your rights to block it for 6 months while you carry out the work very slowly and there is nothing your neighbour could say: odd!).

Anglian Water took over all shared sections themselves a few years ago. Not 100% sure that was a nationwide scheme involving all water companies but you need to ask the water board specifically does it own the sewer if two or more properties use it, otherwise you're digging up a sewer that doesn't belong to you.

 

[Charlie Jez]

Thanks Ric, Believe me I would like the block it off but unfortunately , unlike my neighbour, I am reasonable. She is an elderly lady who only sees things one way, her way. The water board simply don't want to spend any money in this area because it involves a lot of money. My house is in the middle of a golf course that used be a large estate in Victorian times. The old cesspit is still in place.
My neighbours says it was connected to the main line drainage but the board say they have no records and it is unmapped on their files. Our solicitors when they did the search could not find any details which we wanted. I cant see the board doing work on a trap in my garden , on my property, on my land. Sadly , the people who I bought the property from did not reveal all they should, they just wanted to sell. There were clearly issues with the neighbour that they did not mention. They said the neighbour was fine when the real truth is/was, this is far from being the case. Any negotiations with her won't go anywhere. My understanding is water boards will fix a drain or line when on the main road or something but not actually on your land. If they did they would be replacing buchan traps everywhere. Somehow I can't see this happening . If they can't even be bothered to even map the line, they are not going to spend money to fix my trap. The lady is in her 80s and frail now so I don't really want to kick off with her now. Just wish I knew what she was like when I bought the property as I would not have gone through with the sale. Thanks again Ric for kind advice.

 

[snowhead]

If the drain is shared with another property AND discharges into a public sewer then the water company is not only responsible for it, they own it and you need their permission to build near or work on it even if it's on your land.
In the case of a Buchan trap they would probably mark it for regular jetting by themselves as opposed to replacing it.

If the drain discharges to a cesspit or septic tank then it belongs ( jointly if applicable ) to whoever discharges into it, whether there is a formal agreement or not.

With properties now having vented stacks the trap is no longer required and with the volumes of water and soilds flushed down nowadays they are no longer suitable, although if there is a cesspit or septic tank that would need a vent.

Is the Cesspit / Septic tank regularly emptied of solids by a tanker company?

If it was mine, I'd trace the drains and then if found to be discharging to Cess / Septic then replace the trap with a pipe.

If you wanted to try and trace it yourself buy 2 different colours of drain dye, put some down from your property and see if it ends up in the pit and then repeat with a different colour at the neighbours, if they'll let you.

 

[Ric2013]

Leaving aside the ownership for now.

Tempting though it might be to use a drain testing blocking plug to plug your own drain outlet inside the inspection chamber (leaving your neighbour's outlet unplugged and only blocked by the obstructed trap) and let the neighbours sewer back up right into the neighbour's house, as you say, you don't want to start a fight, but seeing as the blockage would then be her problem that might be the only way of getting her to accept she also uses the sewer. I know she's old and we like to help the elderly, but some people are manipulative and being old doesn't make them get any better sadly.

Still, if it were just the cost, well, who cares? It would probably still block if the neighbour didn't use it and I'll admit I invited my own neighbour to connect to my new soakaway. After all, it wasn't going to cost me anything and it gave him somewhere to dump his porch roof water. Replacing the trap for one house or two isn't going to make any difference to cost.

But how are you going to stop the neighbour accidentally flushing the toilet while you are working for a day? Is the neighbour going to expect you to provide a portaloo? Are you going to have to pay for that too because of the disruption you are causing her by working on your drain that is "nothing to do with her"? Because if your neighbour isn't on board, you'll be halfway through works when she decides to flush the toilet and have a long shower.

 

[Charlie Jez]

If the drain is shared with another property AND discharges into a public sewer then the water company is not only responsible for it, they own it and you need their permission to build near or work on it even if it's on your land.
In the case of a Buchan trap they would probably mark it for regular jetting by themselves as opposed to replacing it.

If the drain discharges to a cesspit or septic tank then it belongs ( jointly if applicable ) to whoever discharges into it, whether there is a formal agreement or not.

With properties now having vented stacks the trap is no longer required and with the volumes of water and soilds flushed down nowadays they are no longer suitable, although if there is a cesspit or septic tank that would need a vent.

Is the Cesspit / Septic tank regularly emptied of solids by a tanker company?

If it was mine, I'd trace the drains and then if found to be discharging to Cess / Septic then replace the trap with a pipe.

If you wanted to try and trace it yourself buy 2 different colours of drain dye, put some down from your property and see if it ends up in the pit and then repeat with a different colour at the neighbours, if they'll let you.

Thanks snow head , I will contact the water company further . It goes something like this , according to CCTV I had years ago . From the suspect trap
the drain turns left across my garden 30 metres . It arrives at a manhole on the golf course surrounding my house . I was told it then goes up the hill for about
50 metres or so . It then turns right down a public footpath , going down about 300 yards to connect with other properties drainage . There is an old cesspit on the golf course , behind my wall, which at one time must have been for the house . My kitchen sink water goes to it . I’ve looked inside it and has clear water in it
with silt at the bottom . I know it sounds complicated but that is how it is .
I think my first step is to contact the water people again about the mapping .
Strangely enough , about five or so yards from the trap there is small oval lid which goes down to a tank of some kind . This is clearly some kind of septic tank but I can’t see a pipe that goes to it . Thank you for very kind advice. You and Ric have been very helpful , I really appreciate it . I will see what the water people say and take it from there . I think the first thing is to find out whose responsibility it is .

 

[Drain Master]

The traps are obsolete in this day and age. If your manhole has one it’s highly likely the manhole is the last one before the main sewer and is therefore owned by the water board. Worth checking with them and if it is, keep reporting it frequently and tell them the trap needs removing. They eventually will remove it and put a straight line pipe in

 

[Charlie Jez]

Thank you Drain Master . Water board have visited . They tell me I have to let it block , which it will , to prove it is blocking . If I let it block it backs up and smells my house out . I can keep in clean by flushing it but they say I have to show it blocked . Thanks for your kind advice

 

[Maria_N]

Thank you Drain Master . Water board have visited . They tell me I have to let it block , which it will , to prove it is blocking . If I let it block it backs up and smells my house out . I can keep in clean by flushing it but they say I have to show it blocked . Thanks for your kind advice

Hi Charlie

Could you let me know how you removed the trap please?

Many thanks