Advice on most cost effective hot water solution for old cottage

[Blue407]

I am just buying an old house in a rural village. The village does not have mains gas available and the property has no outside space for a tank.

Currently the hot water is provided by a standard immersion heater into a hot water tank. I believe its the older type with a small cold water header tank in the loft. This feeds a bathroom and kitchen. The bathroom has an old electric shower which needs replacing.

I am looking for advice on the best way to upgrade the hot water solution to something thats both economical to run and install. The house will not be occupied 24/7 so seems pointless heating a whole cylinder of hot water every day.
As the shower needs to be replaced with a new unit, it seems a sensible time to consider options. I would guess the wiring for the shower would need replacing to a 10mm or 16mm for a new unit.

Options as I see it:-

1. Simply install new instant power shower with new wiring, leave old hot water solution alone. Install timer to heat it morning and night, possibly with smart option to allow me to activate it remotely.

2. New hot water cylinder (possibly mains pressure) and standard mixer shower. Install timer to heat it morning and night.

Are there options for instant water heaters for each tap (Bath, bathroom sink, shower and kitchen)? is that cost effective?
Can you get a larger instant water heater that replaces a hot water tank and can then simply feed all taps and a mixer shower?

Any advice, suggestions or ideas are gratefully received.
Heating water only as you need it seems the most sensible idea, on paper. Just don't know how practical it is.

 

[Ben-gee]

First question.
What is occupancy and use of cottage?

Need to quantify hot water requirement before any sensible suggestions should be made.

For example I had an old lady customer in a similar sounding property; for her a satisfactory solution was a 10litre under sink pressurised heater to run kitchen sink and a basin , and an electric shower.

 

[SimonG]

As Ben-gee said above, then check your cold water flow and static and dynamic water pressure.

 

[Murdoch]

I would say a variety of instant hot water heaters would be an expensive option ...

could you not replace the hot tank for a new one with 2 immersions so you only heat the top each night?

does the property have WiFi ?

 

[Blue407]

First question.
What is occupancy and use of cottage?

Need to quantify hot water requirement before any sensible suggestions should be made.

For example I had an old lady customer in a similar sounding property; for her a satisfactory solution was a 10litre under sink pressurised heater to run kitchen sink and a basin , and an electric shower.

Once a new shower is installed, bath is much less likely to be used. Only occasionally.
At the moment, its a 2nd home so no occupied 24/7, longer term will be there at least 50% of the year and working from home. Hence it seems silly to heat a full tank of hot water every night.

 

[Blue407]

I would say a variety of instant hot water heaters would be an expensive option ***

could you not replace the hot tank for a new one with 2 immersions so you only heat the top each night?

does the property have WiFi ?

It has Wi-Fi, yes.

Do the 2 immersion tanks have separate sections then?

Is an immersion heater any more expensive to run than a instant water heater?
Hence my thoughts about some sort of instant water heater that replaced the tank, so only the water thats required is heated.

 

[king of pipes]

Providing you have good pressure and flow rate from your incoming supply, I would suggest fitting one of these it will keep things simple and it's easy to incorporate a hive or similar smart control. Kop

 

[Blue407]

Providing you have good pressure and flow rate from your incoming supply, I would suggest fitting one of these it will keep things simple and it's easy to incorporate a hive or similar smart control. Kop

Thanks for this suggestion.

If I understand correctly, this has 2 immersion heaters. One can be used to heat the tank during off-peak electricity (at night) and the other for a boost if you predict you will need more hot water.
A smart control could be then used on the primary, so it only heats up when you know you are going to be there to use it.
Advantage is no header tank in loft and main hot water throughout the house. Also means can have a simple mixer shower with no requirement for instant water heaters or shower.
Potential more expensive up front to install (new tank, immersion heaters, expansion vessels etc), but much less work than running new 32a or higher cables to a new instant power shower etc. Then much more control (remotely) on when water is heated.

Is that right?

 

[king of pipes]

Thanks for this suggestion.

If I understand correctly, this has 2 immersion heaters. One can be used to heat the tank during off-peak electricity (at night) and the other for a boost if you predict you will need more hot water.
A smart control could be then used on the primary, so it only heats up when you know you are going to be there to use it.
Advantage is no header tank in loft and main hot water throughout the house. Also means can have a simple mixer shower with no requirement for instant water heaters or shower.
Potential more expensive up front to install (new tank, immersion heaters, expansion vessels etc), but much less work than running new 32a or higher cables to a new instant power shower etc. Then much more control (remotely) on when water is heated.

Is that right?

Correct kop

 

[Basher]

Thanks for this suggestion.

If I understand correctly, this has 2 immersion heaters. One can be used to heat the tank during off-peak electricity (at night) and the other for a boost if you predict you will need more hot water.
A smart control could be then used on the primary, so it only heats up when you know you are going to be there to use it.
Advantage is no header tank in loft and main hot water throughout the house. Also means can have a simple mixer shower with no requirement for instant water heaters or shower.
Potential more expensive up front to install (new tank, immersion heaters, expansion vessels etc), but much less work than running new 32a or higher cables to a new instant power shower etc. Then much more control (remotely) on when water is heated.

Is that right?

Yes, and that's exactly what we've done in our period ('holiday') cottage. Joule cylinder, lower immersion on smart wi-fi switch, upper immersion on boost timer for when you are there. Compared to previous 'fortic' tank, so much better to have balanced H & C in the bathroom, and decent flow at the taps and shower. Well worth it in my book!

 

[CP Plumbing]

What about gas fired water heaters? I've fitted loads back home but I haven't seen any been fitted here. It's a whole house hot water solution using an lpg bottle which you can replace in an instant by yourself!

 

[Jim - Plumber]

What about gas fired water heaters? I've fitted loads back home but I haven't seen any been fitted here. It's a whole house hot water solution using an lpg bottle which you can replace in an instant by yourself!

Yip, I second this potential solution - check these out - I spoke to them the other day - they are also doing an external mounted unit ( fully weather proofed ) so you just stab through the wall with the pipework , hand for limited space - gas multi point water heater

 

[CP Plumbing]

Yip, I second this potential solution - check these out - I spoke to them the other day - they are also doing an external mounted unit ( fully weather proofed ) so you just stab through the wall with the pipework , hand for limited space - gas multi point water heater

Brilliant! That's what I'm talking about, problem solved! The most important is to have balanced cold/hot water supply to avoid any issues when using mixer taps.

 

[king of pipes]

Only thing that would put me off is the the risk of freezing this is not a property that is occupied all the time it will be locked up and left for months at a time, LPG cylinders need to be stored in a locked metal cage externally so can look ugly unless they can be hidden away. Regards kop

 

[green grant]

I would say a variety of instant hot water heaters would be an expensive option ***

could you not replace the hot tank for a new one with 2 immersions so you only heat the top each night?

does the property have WiFi ?

expensive to heat the water you need "on demand" but not expensive to heat water "in advance for when you might need it" That is contradictory advice and inaccurate and misleading... unless you can show the math to substantiate your reckoning ?

 

[Ric2013]

Only thing that would put me off is the the risk of freezing this is not a property that is occupied all the time it will be locked up and left for months at a time, LPG cylinders need to be stored in a locked metal cage externally so can look ugly unless they can be hidden away. Regards kop

Is that a rule for new installations or due to theft? Loads in North Wales are just left in the garden and totally on show.