Search the forum,

Discuss Condensation In Bathroom With No Window - Best Extractor Solution? in the Bathrooms, Showers and Wetrooms area at PlumbersForums.net

Messages
68
Hi all,

We recently had a ground floor bathroom/wet room finished off, It's about 3.6m long by 2.7m wide, tiled from floor to ceiling and has no window in there due to a future extension that will take place on the other side of the rear wall.

Unfortunately, i've Instantly noticed when showering that alot of condensation is forming on the tiles/mirrors and the room stays really wet and humid in there for hours afterwards, which even with the fact we jackoboarded most of the room....its still giving me cause for concern. As I can see wet patches and mould forming on the grout already just a few weeks in.

As part of the bathroom fit, the spark did install a 4" Mentis, Axial type extractor fan in there (pictured). Though doing a bit of research online i'm thinking that this may be the problem as the fan looks quite weak. It has an extraction rate of 73 m3 per hour....and the ducting it's venting through is about 2.5m long...obviously with a right angle bend in it too.... which i've read could well be too long for this fan too?

Anyway long story short, i'm looking at swapping it out for something much more powerful, ideally without having to change the 4" ducting to 6". In-line types not an option as there's no access to the ceiling cavity without making a big hole everytime it hypothetically breaks down.... so i'm guessing from my basic research online that my best bet is to go centrifugal, or mixed type. Either something like the Vent-axia Lo Carbon Quadra/ Vent-axia lo carbon revive, or Airflow Icon60? all seem to have an extraction rate of 220 m3 per hour, so three times as powerful as what i've got now, so hopefully would solve this issue.

Love to get some input on this, am I on the right lines to solving this? are there other things I should be considering too? and has anyone used any of the models above and can comment on their experience? they're all quite expensive so would like to get it right!


pictures below for reference.

extractor_fan_pos.jpgIMG-0909.JPGIMG-0912.JPGIMG-0911.JPG
 
You need a vent / ventilation for the shower area as that fan isn’t doing nothing where it’s positioned

Also supply air is needed
 
The first thing you should be considering is, is there enough air getting into the bathroom to replace the amount you are currently trying to extract.
Is there a vent in the wall / door or is the bottom of the door cut to leave a gap, connecting with rooms ouside the bathroom.
 
I suspect you have a number of issues here

1. how long does the timer stay on for after the lights are switched off ?

2. how big is the gap under the door ?

3. what is the fan vent made of?

4. how is the room heated?
 
thanks for so many replies already folks, already things that i obviously haven't considered such as sucking air from outside the room.

I suspect you have a number of issues here

1. how long does the timer stay on for after the lights are switched off ?

2. how big is the gap under the door ?

3. what is the fan vent made of?

4. how is the room heated?

1) I've left the lights in for 2hrs after a shower to see whether the timer was the issue, still had misty mirrors and water on the tiles and grout / felt muggy when entering the room.

2) slightly undulated, 8mm at the most, 4mm at the worst.

3) looking from the outside of the property back through the external vent, it looks like a tin foil type, so i'd assume a flexible aluminium? It's circular too, not the flat type.

4) Two ways, there's a wall rad on the right hand side between the basin and door. and it has an electrical type UFH too. Though when using the bathroom so far i havent had either of these on.

One other thing i've just noticed, when I hold my hand over the external vent I should feel air coming through there when the fan is on right? obviously I appreciate the stupidity of that question but I'm just not feeling it....it feels slightly warm, but not as if it's blowing onto my hand.
 
Last edited:
The first thing you should be considering is, is there enough air getting into the bathroom to replace the amount you are currently trying to extract.
Is there a vent in the wall / door or is the bottom of the door cut to leave a gap, connecting with rooms ouside the bathroom.
No vent no, hadn't considered this. But I have showered once with the door wide open, didn't appear to make a huge amount of difference.
 
You need a vent / ventilation for the shower area as that fan isn’t doing nothing where it’s positioned

Also supply air is needed
I think it's going to be a little bit of a pain in the backside to do that now. As the ceiling joists run front to back in that room and the channel i'd run the ducting down from the shower will have a whopping soil pipe between that and the external wall... so not even sure its possible. on the attached, blue is the proposed shower vent, green is where the soil is running horizontally.

shower_vent_possible.jpg


That said, most of the moisture is on the other side of the room, the far back side, furthest from the shower... so it's like the vapour is just not being sucked up by the extractor fan as it passes by.....
 
If the red x is where the fan is, it is in the wrong position imho.

it would be more effective over the shower so the air drawn under the door pulls more air through the shower area and out

aNS as the shower has its own ceiling then the air directly above it is unlikely to clear
 
If the red x is where the fan is, it is in the wrong position imho.

it would be more effective over the shower so the air drawn under the door pulls more air through the shower area and out

aNS as the shower has its own ceiling then the air directly above it is unlikely to clear

Yes, I see what you're saying, though I replied to a separate comment about how im not sure thats even viable due to the joists and soil pipe positions... (attached below) blue is proposed fan over shower, green is soil pipe, red is where current fan is. I cant see how i could then duct it to the external wall at the back with the soil pipe in the way like that.

As its unlikely I can get it vented above the shower.... I guess.... where's the next best place for it? even further from the shower would be bad, right?
 

Attachments

  • shower_vent_possible.jpg
    shower_vent_possible.jpg
    241.1 KB · Views: 13
The problem is with the room being on the larger size and not being in the correct / ideal position your going to have to up the output eg increase the dia to increase the air changes in a room

I would say a 6” would struggle 8” would be better as it would change the room air once ever 2-3 minutes
 
The problem is with the room being on the larger size and not being in the correct / ideal position your going to have to up the output eg increase the dia to increase the air changes in a room

I would say a 6” would struggle 8” would be better as it would change the room air once ever 2-3 minutes

Interesting, I cant say i've seen any centrifugal type ones yet that have bigger ducting than 4"....

Plenty of axial types but they're generally less powerful arent they? Icon60 by Airflow was the biggest axial / hybrid type I saw and that was 6" but it got lots of awful reviews. So thought a 4" vent-axia centrifugal might be enough, based on the flow rates they advertise they look pretty powerful to be fair, over three times the extraction im getting currently. Louder ofcourse as the trade-off, but that's not an issue really.


says it'll do 60l per second, vs my current one which does about 19.
 
That's the current ducting, running from the extractor fan to the external wall, running parallel to the joists. Length of duct is thereabouts 2.5M

So why don’t you get the installer back. Cut a new hole in the ceiling and use the duct in place?

Sounds like the installer hasn’t done many bathrooms
 
So why don’t you get the installer back. Cut a new hole in the ceiling and use the duct in place?

Sounds like the installer hasn’t done many bathrooms

I can get the installer back, but I'm not sure I follow what you mean?

Apologies if ive been unclear, red is what's already there, ducting and fan. My initial idea was to simply swap out the red x marked fan for something much stronger. Till I saw the responses on this thread about moving the position of the fan.

If you mean cut a hole somewhere else, where do you mean?
 
Interesting, I cant say i've seen any centrifugal type ones yet that have bigger ducting than 4"....

Plenty of axial types but they're generally less powerful arent they? Icon60 by Airflow was the biggest axial / hybrid type I saw and that was 6" but it got lots of awful reviews. So thought a 4" vent-axia centrifugal might be enough, based on the flow rates they advertise they look pretty powerful to be fair, over three times the extraction im getting currently. Louder ofcourse as the trade-off, but that's not an issue really.


says it'll do 60l per second, vs my current one which does about 19.

That would give you an air change in roughly 10-12 minutes

Inline ones are always best

 
That would give you an air change in roughly 10-12 minutes

Inline ones are always best


i know, it's just that where the inline one would go, would not be accessible with it being a ground floor bathroom. So not sure I can be arsed with the faff of cutting a hole in the ceiling everytime it needs to come down.

I suppose an alternative would be to do a sort of loft hatch instead..... But even then the rate of extraction isn't heaps beyond 220 M3 per hour.

Not sure it's worth it. as a first port of call anyway!
 
i know, it's just that where the inline one would go, would not be accessible with it being a ground floor bathroom. So not sure I can be arsed with the faff of cutting a hole in the ceiling everytime it needs to come down.

I suppose an alternative would be to do a sort of loft hatch instead..... But even then the rate of extraction isn't heaps beyond 220 M3 per hour.

Not sure it's worth it. as a first port of call anyway!

just get the installer back to relocate the fan to above the shower and use the existing ducting!
 
I would move the fan so it’s over the shower 😁
haha, I know, me too... but I dont think it's an option. Let me do another diagram.

Black lines are the joists,
Blue is proposed position of fan over shower and ducting from shower to external
green is soil pipe that cant be moved because of an RSJ.
red is current extractor and current ducting

extractor_over_shower.jpg
 
Last edited:
haha, I know, me too... but I dont think it's an option. Let me do another diagram.

Black lines are the joists,
Blue is proposed position of fan over shower and ducting from shower to external
green is soil pipe that cant be moved because of an RSJ.
red is current extractor and current ducting


How could he get the current ducting from where it is to the shower if the joists run front to back?

I thought you said the red lines were marking where the vent runs ????????
 
i know, it's just that where the inline one would go, would not be accessible with it being a ground floor bathroom. So not sure I can be arsed with the faff of cutting a hole in the ceiling everytime it needs to come down.

I suppose an alternative would be to do a sort of loft hatch instead..... But even then the rate of extraction isn't heaps beyond 220 M3 per hour.

Not sure it's worth it. as a first port of call anyway!

810m3/h

You were reading the lps movement :)
 
Above in my post (20)
Thats beefy indeed. Would mean ripping the ducting out and going bigger but thats not necessarily a bad thing. I reckon it's probably overkill at 800 odd m3 but maybe you're right.

I guess it cant hurt to try a centrifugal one first thats three times the extraction of my current.... and if that doesnt cut the mustard as it were, then I can just go nuclear with an 8'' inline.
 
flexi vent slows the airflow down. Longer runs are far better using soil pipes
Is 2.5m considered long? Ideally I want to try and fix this with the least amount of ceiling coming down as possible.

are some types of flexi better than others? all the inline ones i've got in the loft dont use the aluminium stuff, but they're like a white material instead.
 

Reply to Condensation In Bathroom With No Window - Best Extractor Solution? in the Bathrooms, Showers and Wetrooms area at PlumbersForums.net

Similar plumbing topics

L
I currently rent a flat but the bathroom does not have a window. Weirdly last year we had no issues but this year we have noticed mould spores on the ceiling and shower curtain. This has been removed by mould cleaner. We have an extractor fan but it’s small and only works for around four minutes...
Replies
6
Views
768
Hi I am having problems in the bathroom with condensation when/after taking a shower which is causing mould. I believe I need an extra fan to be fitted through the wall with shutter (to prevent cold air coming back in) and run on timer. 1. Should the above be sufficient or is there anything...
Replies
9
Views
606
One of the reasons I have seen for not routing the condensate from an extractor fan outlet into the soil stack (at a point above all sinks/toilets/etc that drain into the stack) is that smells would come from the stack into the room containing the extractor fan. I can see the logic in this but...
Replies
6
Views
774
We live in a 1980s four-bedroom detached house. The time has come for new central heating. The current system is a mild revision of the original heating installed when the house was built, and this revision was largely to replace a life-expired boiler: non-condensing fan flue boiler open...
Replies
13
Views
2K
Plumbing/water heater- spots recently on ceiling downstairs, 2 story house. Condensation??? New water heater. Live in same house now for 20 years but could happen anywhere. Got a new water heater in September on 2nd floor in a tiny closet. In that closet is a metal aluminum vent and also a...
Replies
0
Views
704
Creating content since 2001. Untold Media.

Newest Plumbing Threads

Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock