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Hello

I thought I'd post a post.

I am currently under going a full re dec of the whole house, new flooring, skirting, architrave window boards and nice new rads.

Plumber came to fit the new rads, drained down the system. To begin the work the next day.

I had a call from the kitchen floor tilers to say there was a leak coming into the lounge ceiling / window reveal. Ruined the reveal. Needs plastering or maybe replacing

I called the plumber and he came back round to check straight away. I wasn't in at time and made my way back home straight away. Water had come in from the above bedrooms and into the lounge reveal. I got home and checked the living room out. And around the whole house. Checked everywhere. Plumber had left by the time I got there.

The next day the kitchen tilers rang again to say there is water coming coming through the kitchen ceiling ( alot of it) all over the kitchen floor. Wrecked the new kitchen plinths. Potentially the kitchen floor grout. All the other rooms have had ply laid down ready for amitco flooring. The ply had had a fair amount of water over it. Ensuite flooded. Landing carpet completely soaked around the rad area. So I've had to open an insurance claim.

The plumber is saying that both valves. The heating filling loop were letting water by. So even thou he had drained the system it was letting water by and filling the system up.

Question should he have discovered that the "valves" for the heating filling loop were at "fault" when draining the system. Or is this completely avoidable.

Now left with a huge amount of unnecessary damage. Plumber is demanding a days wage when was only there from 9 to 2pm. He's replaced the 2 valves on the filling loop as he said they were at fault. Also bearing in mind I had a rad capped off month before and some work a month before that. So the system has been drained down twice fully successfully without any issues.....oh this was done by a different plumber. Who I would normally use. But was unfortunately to busy with his schedule to fit me on for this rad work.

So has the plumber been incompetent and not checking the system correctly and making sure it's draining down correctly, also should he have had detected these issues when draining down the system, therefore avoiding all of these issues I now have / or should he have detected the issues on his second visit when I called to say i had a leak in the lounge from the rad pipes above.


Should I pay or not.....would really like some advice. Never had this much damage done or any after a trades man has been in.
 
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Did you notice the pressure rising before the works (plumber) came in ?

also why did he leave an open end while he wasn’t there ?

also if there were passing I’m sure he would of noticed this as when he cut the pipes water would start coming out / not stop on his hose / drain down
 
Did you notice the pressure rising before the works (plumber) came in ?

also why did he leave an open end while he wasn’t there ?

also if there were passing I’m sure he would of noticed this as when he cut the pipes water would start coming out / not stop on his hose / drain down
No the pressure no the pressure on the gauge was all good. It's one thing I know to check and keep and eye on. For just general reasons and making sure your home is in perfect working order.

He didn't leave open ends as such, just removed the rad, so the pipe work and valves / trvs were just there.

Exactly I agree I can't see how he didn't notice this at all. The hose would have been a massive clue that the system is filling back up.

I had no issues with the heating system at all, up until now - now being water through out the house. I feel it's complete negligence but I'm not a plumber so I thought I'd ask here
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Is it a combi boiler?
Any pictures of the damage?
Just that one persons flood can be anothers pint of water on the floor
No it's not a combi boiler, it's an invented system.

Pictures there's so many.

Trust me it's a lot of water. The only rads I'm keep are the towel rails, when I got there it was coming out of the bleed valve badly.

Pint wise, I actually used a pint glass and lots of towels to catch the water. The pint glass had to be emptied 10 times
 
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I would be asking for his insurance Information

as tbh if he’s going to do what you’ve said and leave the rad valves open / even if there shut the trv can still open due to frost setting

remove the filling loop flexi hose but always cap your valves when you remove a rad
 
I would be asking for his insurance Information

as tbh if he’s going to do what you’ve said and leave the rad valves open / even if there shut the trv can still open due to frost setting

remove the filling loop flexi hose but always cap your valves when you remove a rad
He's demanding £250, and saying that he will let slide the 2 new filling valves that he fitted. He fitted 2 new filling valve once the water was already thought the house. He fitted them while putting blame on them failing. I said while he was fitting them that I haven't had any issues with the system over pressurising. Also said the system has been drained twice within a few months

On the phone this evening he said that the valves have probably failed due to the fact that the system had been drain twice recently. Not sure if that's at all true. I believe he's blaming the system on his negligence. If only he did his due diligence o wouldn't be in this situation.

I knew a trv could open if the temperature gets to low. But as I told the system was fully drained and would not fill-up I was confidence in him.....that water would even be in the heating system.

Why would you remove the Flexi filling hose out of interest, just trying to understand that's all.
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So has the TRV opened and let water out?
When I got home after I called to say we have a leak coming into the living room. All the trvs where fully closed, but as I'm aware a closed trv can still let water through. But obviously I paid the guy to drain the system and start the new rads the next day. So as he told me the system was fully drained and safe. Coming back the next day was his idea. Not sure why as it was only 2pm. Water was also escaping from the towel rail bleed valve's
 
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He's demanding £250, and saying that he will let slide the 2 new filling valves that he fitted. He fitted 2 new filling valve once the water was already thought the house. He fitted them while putting blame on them failing. I said while he was fitting them that I haven't had any issues with the system over pressurising. Also said the system has been drained twice within a few months

On the phone this evening he said that the valves have probably failed due to the fact that the system had been drain twice recently. Not sure if that's at all true. I believe he's blaming the system on his negligence. If only he did his due diligence o wouldn't be in this situation.

I knew a trv could open if the temperature gets to low. But as I told the system was fully drained and would not fill-up I was confidence in him...that water would even be in the heating system.

Why would you remove the Flexi filling hose out of interest, just trying to understand that's all.

no sorry I mean it was his responsibility to make safe eg cap any open end just in case anything happens (most often people remove rads to decorate and forget about capping then they wake up in the morning and find the trv has opened on frost and waters everywhere etc)

They don’t just fail like that, could understand if the filling loop was dripping but doesn’t open by its self

as it's drained down and things are open personal security just in case anyone accidentally opens the valves or they get nocked by sparkies wiring stuff etc
The system won’t fill without the flexi cap both valve ends where the flexi goes and your safe
 
no sorry I mean it was his responsibility to make safe eg cap any open end just in case anything happens (most often people remove rads to decorate and forget about capping then they wake up in the morning and find the trv has opened on frost and waters everywhere etc)

They don’t just fail like that, could understand if the filling loop was dripping but doesn’t open by its self

as it's drained down and things are open personal security just in case anyone accidentally opens the valves or they get nocked by sparkies wiring stuff etc
The system won’t fill without the flexi cap both valve ends where the flexi goes and your safe
Ah now I understand, belt and braces by removing the Flexi pipe and caping the rads off. Just seems that he didn't or not probably close the system off. Also he should have definitely capped off the rad valves just in case. But that wouldn't have helped the ensuite as water came out of the bleed valve. Water all over the ensuite floor, then poured into the main bed floor by 2 foot. New skirting and architrave ruined
 
Ah now I understand, belt and braces by removing the Flexi pipe and caping the rads off. Just seems that he didn't or not probably close the system off. Also he should have definitely capped off the rad valves just in case. But that wouldn't have helped the ensuite as water came out of the bleed valve. Water all over the ensuite floor, then poured into the main bed floor by 2 foot. New skirting and architrave ruined

no but force of habit you always go back round when drained to close them as you can guarantee when you fill back up you won’t remember you’ve left them open
 
He didn’t close the bleed valves didn’t disconnect the filling loop and left open ends that’s 3 mistakes. You should be asking for he’s insurance details
 
no but force of habit you always go back round when drained to close them as you can guarantee when you fill back up you won’t remember you’ve left them open
I definitely think this could have been avoided. Now let's say both my filling loop valves were at fault. Do you think he should of noticed this. Ie he's draining while the system is filling. He feels he hasn't done any wrong. But in fact he sounds like hes done me a favour (the way he's talking on the phone) and replaced both "faulty valves" wants £250 from pretty much half a day and he'll let slide the 2 replacement valves
 
Yes he should of noticed this / checked the filling loop / removed the flexi

In my opinion he’s at fault
 
Yes he should of noticed this / checked the filling loop / removed the flexi

In my opinion he’s at fault
Thank you, just a shame. Paid £380 insurance excess today. On the phone he said he wants his £250 and that the issues now in my house aren't his problem. How people sleep at night. I even said lets meet in the middle at £125, that's be being extremely generous in eyes considering the situation. The £125 is for the "faulty" filling loop valves. Which I believe he is just saying they are at fault to divert the blame. £125 for 2 £15 valves at most and fitting and leaving a customer with water damage over to floors is a win win for him I feel. I don't want to pay at all. But I don't want to take food off his table. Almost feel obliged to pay him something. But he won't accept the fault lies with him so therefore wants his £250 in full
 
Wouldn’t pay anything or go through his insurance and pay him his dues eg 250 that he’s asked
 
Seems like a good idea. I've gone through my house insurance who have said once the house is sorted they will seek the money back through his insurance company

exactly but it’s cost you your excess so that’s his payment else you will be out the full amount your already down £130
 
Ok! He is definitely at fault here and his incompetence has caused your flooding.
1st of all you never ever leave a filling loop attached it is against regulations. It has always to be disconnected and capped to ensure let by doesn't happen and also to enable backflow protection to stop the mains drinking water becoming contaminated.
2ndly he's has not put any caps onto the TRV's when he has removed the radiators. Any plumber worth his salt knows it is the same as leaving an open end if they are not capped. It only takes a slight drop in room temperature and hey Presto, they open up and dump water everywhere. A big no no and your lucky to get away without capping a TRV in the middle of summer let alone in winter when you've got zero chance of it staying shut.
And 3rd he has left bleed valves open and once again this smacks of incompetence.
You need to point out to him that you intend to seek compensation from him and do not pay him another penny. Do not feel sorry for him this is all his own fault and take this further he sounds like a cowboy to me.
 
Ok! He is definitely at fault here and his incompetence has caused your flooding.
1st of all you never ever leave a filling loop attached it is against regulations. It has always to be disconnected and capped to ensure let by doesn't happen and also to enable backflow protection to stop the mains drinking water becoming contaminated.
2ndly he's has not put any caps onto the TRV's when he has removed the radiators. Any plumber worth his salt knows it is the same as leaving an open end if they are not capped. It only takes a slight drop in room temperature and hey Presto, they open up and dump water everywhere. A big no no and your lucky to get away without capping a TRV in the middle of summer let alone in winter when you've got zero chance of it staying shut.
And 3rd he has left bleed valves open and once again this smacks of incompetence.
You need to point out to him that you intend to seek compensation from him and do not pay him another penny. Do not feel sorry for him this is all his own fault and take this further he sounds like a cowboy to me.
Thank you Darren for you very detailed reply. And to all the replies I've had on here. I'm glad I've posted on here, didn't know whether I'd get completely shot down on. I've got some really consistent replies. Which is great. Thank you again
 
Thank you Darren for you very detailed reply. And to all the replies I've had on here. I'm glad I've posted on here, didn't know whether I'd get completely shot down on. I've got some really consistent replies. Which is great. Thank you again

As has been properly pointed out here, there have been easily identifiable and preventable mistakes made by the plumber.

Just to recap -

He left the filling loop hose connected.

He left the bleed valves on the rads open.

He didn't cap off the radiator valves which is no different to leaving open ends. It doesn't matter they have valves, you still blank off a valve wherever you have one with one side not connected to anything. The only exception to that would be the old Type-B drain cock with the hose connection on but that's not what leaked in your house.
 
As has been properly pointed out here, there have been easily identifiable and preventable mistakes made by the plumber.

Just to recap -

He left the filling loop hose connected.

He left the bleed valves on the rads open.

He didn't cap off the radiator valves which is no different to leaving open ends. It doesn't matter they have valves, you still blank off a valve wherever you have one with one side not connected to anything. The only exception to that would be the old Type-B drain cock with the hose connection on but that's not what leaked in your house.
Thank you very much Stigster, this all points out that he didn't make the correct precautions, especially as we was leaving the house like that to come back the next day
 
House unoccupied?

Let's look at it slightly differently.

Plumber goes in, drains down (did he drain the system or just the roads he took off?).
Let's say he drained down.
Took of x number of rads, didn't cap valves as system drained.
Yes filling loop still attached, yet who can say that they don't see this more than 95% of the time. Plus is it a separate filling loop or built into boiler like a worcester?

Third party working in property, ooh it's a bit nippy in here, I will shot the heating on. Oops, no pressure, never mind it's just like mine at home, I'll stick some water in it.

Splash.

Just trying to play devils advocate and always 2 sides to a story.
 
House unoccupied?

Let's look at it slightly differently.

Plumber goes in, drains down (did he drain the system or just the roads he took off?).
Let's say he drained down.
Took of x number of rads, didn't cap valves as system drained.
Yes filling loop still attached, yet who can say that they don't see this more than 95% of the time. Plus is it a separate filling loop or built into boiler like a worcester?

Third party working in property, ooh it's a bit nippy in here, I will shot the heating on. Oops, no pressure, never mind it's just like mine at home, I'll stick some water in it.

Splash.

Just trying to play devils advocate and always 2 sides to a story.
The house isn't unoccupied, I wasnt due to stay there that night any way

The filling loop is a separate one not built-in to the boiler. The filling is just above the cylinder.
No else touched the heating system apart from him. Yes I had the kitchen tillers in but they left at 4pm and the plumber came back just after they had left ( second visit) for the first reported leak.
 
No else touched the heating system apart from him. Yes I had the kitchen tillers in but they left at 4pm and the plumber came back just after they had left ( second visit) for the first reported leak. not saying not his fault but could tilers have tried to fill it as they wanted a bit of heat.
 
No else touched the heating system apart from him. Yes I had the kitchen tillers in but they left at 4pm and the plumber came back just after they had left ( second visit) for the first reported leak. not saying not his fault but could tilers have tried to fill it as they wanted a bit of heat.
No not a all as I have nest and all the heating electrics we're off. But surely he should have capped trv ends and capped the filling loop. When he came back at 4pm and he was the only one on the house surely then he should of realized the issues. And then definitely capped off to ensure no further leaking?
 
He didn’t close the bleed valves didn’t disconnect the filling loop and left open ends that’s 3 mistakes. You should be asking for he’s insurance details

I'm willing to bet if hes that careless on the job he probably doesn't have insurance
 
Agreed there are always 2 sides to a story!
But at the end of the day, the op hired a professional. Who's job is to anticipate the possible interference from a third party, be it another trade person, a tenant, a minor or home owner that does not realise or know not to top up the pressure. A true professional would have made a quick risk assessment and eliminated the possibility of this happening with just a few good practice measures which lets face it, should always be carried out regardless of the property being occupied or not just to protect the property, decoration & contents. In my mind the plumber is guilty of negligence and needs to be brought to justice. Not try to blame a faulty filling loop and try to make more money out of it. Because even if the valves were faulty (which I don't believe) but given the benefit of the doubt, he still should have followed simple procedure and the flooding would not have happened faulty valves or not.
 
Agreed there are always 2 sides to a story!
But at the end of the day, the op hired a professional. Who's job is to anticipate the possible interference from a third party, be it another trade person, a tenant, a minor or home owner that does not realise or know not to top up the pressure. A true professional would have made a quick risk assessment and eliminated the possibility of this happening with just a few good practice measures which lets face it, should always be carried out regardless of the property being occupied or not just to protect the property, decoration & contents. In my mind the plumber is guilty of negligence and needs to be brought to justice. Not try to blame a faulty filling loop and try to make more money out of it. Because even if the valves were faulty (which I don't believe) but given the benefit of the doubt, he still should have followed simple procedure and the flooding would not have happened faulty valves or not.
Couldn't agree any more. I still have water dripping out of trvs. When he came back the next day which I think I said he did. He capped off both ends of the filling loop. But obviously the damage was already caused. So he did the right thing at the wrong time. Unfortunately Im now left with lots of damage, a big insurance claim. Dripping trvs and a plumber demanding £250 for a days wage. Also to add insult he only done 4 hours. £250 for 4 hours. That's from the time he pulled up to the time he pulled off the drive way. Insurance company sent out a company to start the drying process. I've got these great big dryer's in the house....there pretty cool. So far the insurance process has been relatively straightforward. The only thing they have said which I worried about is that the lose adjuster may consider the damage to each rooms as individual insurance claims. I.e 5 rooms damaged = 5 X £380 insurance excess.
 
Always two sides to a story but open ends needed capping if this had been done the passing filling loop would not have caused the problem and as the others have stated in a ideal world it also should be disconnected and capped, I feel for you here it doesn't take much to ruin your home surfaces and decor but I doubt he will admit liability seems a bit unprofessional but plenty of them out there we all get leaks from time to time it's a hazard of the job but you need to bend over backwards to rectify the issue and treat the customer and their property with respect hope it all gets resolved Regards Kop.
 

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